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Author Topic: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III  (Read 1672 times)

Offline Gibby

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2020, 07:30:46 PM »
I'm getting quite interested in Swordpoint. I really like the way (from the videos Atheling posted) that battle lines are critical, as befits nearly all ancient to medieval battles. Which is as others here have already said, just adding my voice to the choir. It sounds to me like it adds a bit of extra decision making to the usual centre-of-the-table clash of forces. Do I fall back with this beleaguered unit? How do I deal with those impetuous Knights pushing the enemy back on the left but leaving our line out of shape? Etc.

May have to grab a copy some time in the new year. It's a shame the supplements are quite pricey (when really I'm probably only going to want the WoTR list for the foreseeable) but hey, companies need to make some money I guess.

Offline Atheling

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2020, 08:17:14 PM »
I'm getting quite interested in Swordpoint. I really like the way (from the videos Atheling posted) that battle lines are critical, as befits nearly all ancient to medieval battles. Which is as others here have already said, just adding my voice to the choir. It sounds to me like it adds a bit of extra decision making to the usual centre-of-the-table clash of forces. Do I fall back with this beleaguered unit? How do I deal with those impetuous Knights pushing the enemy back on the left but leaving our line out of shape? Etc.

May have to grab a copy some time in the new year. It's a shame the supplements are quite pricey (when really I'm probably only going to want the WoTR list for the foreseeable) but hey, companies need to make some money I guess.

These are the same factors which attracted me to the rules. I've played too many games where one unit breaks and everyone else just stands. Or an entire unit, outnumbered by several average units annihilates them in turn. It is just not how battles were fought.

To be fair, I haven't managed to dig into Swordpoint as Covid hit just prior to a few games we had planned were to materialise. I think I've read through the rules enough now to get a feel for how they will play. There is a slight WAB residue but that (thankfully) doesn't effect the way the game plays. Or is of very little importance.

Roll on vaccination :)

Offline Barbarus

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2021, 03:32:38 PM »
Why would the base sizes hurt the game?

If you have your minis on single 20x20mm bases you obviously just have to count four of them as a 40x40mm base...
if a 40x40mm base has to be removed you remove those 4 models.

same with cavalry, two models on 25x50mm bases make up a Swordpoint base. If a base is removed, you remove those two models.

I've got my infantry on 40x40mm bases with a bunch of single ones, based on 20x20mm. This way I can play any game with them, as I can have any number of models in a unit with the mix of these two base sizes.

Same for my cavalry, most are two models on a 50x50mm base, but musicians, banners, champions/leaders are on single bases, for those games where you have to remove those specific models.




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Offline Atheling

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2021, 03:57:25 PM »
Why would the base sizes hurt the game?

If you have your minis on single 20x20mm bases you obviously just have to count four of them as a 40x40mm base...
if a 40x40mm base has to be removed you remove those 4 models.

same with cavalry, two models on 25x50mm bases make up a Swordpoint base. If a base is removed, you remove those two models.

I've got my infantry on 40x40mm bases with a bunch of single ones, based on 20x20mm. This way I can play any game with them, as I can have any number of models in a unit with the mix of these two base sizes.

Same for my cavalry, most are two models on a 50x50mm base, but musicians, banners, champions/leaders are on single bases, for those games where you have to remove those specific models.

TBH, I just base mine the way I fancy and fit them into the rules. If you're wargaming with a player that's bothered about a few mm here and there then I would be tempted to avoid playing said person.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 07:41:11 PM by Atheling »

Offline Gibby

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2021, 05:15:09 PM »
TBH, I just base mine the way I fancy and fit them into the rules. If you're wargaming with a player that's bothered about a few mm here wand there then I would be tempted to avoid playing said person.

Fully agree.

Offline Roo

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2021, 05:43:37 PM »
Agree with that

Offline craigjwoodfield

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2021, 07:21:57 PM »
I'm getting quite interested in Swordpoint. I really like the way (from the videos Atheling posted) that battle lines are critical, as befits nearly all ancient to medieval battles. Which is as others here have already said, just adding my voice to the choir. It sounds to me like it adds a bit of extra decision making to the usual centre-of-the-table clash of forces. Do I fall back with this beleaguered unit? How do I deal with those impetuous Knights pushing the enemy back on the left but leaving our line out of shape? Etc.

May have to grab a copy some time in the new year. It's a shame the supplements are quite pricey (when really I'm probably only going to want the WoTR list for the foreseeable) but hey, companies need to make some money I guess.

Most of those factors are present in other rules. I won't deny that it has some good ideas, but my group found it to be a really mediocre set of rules to play. Essentially it is an update of WAB, and it doubles down on many of the shortcomings of that system. There's your dissenting opinion!

Offline Atheling

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2021, 07:43:39 PM »
Most of those factors are present in other rules. I won't deny that it has some good ideas, but my group found it to be a really mediocre set of rules to play. Essentially it is an update of WAB, and it doubles down on many of the shortcomings of that system. There's your dissenting opinion!

Dissent away. :) That's one of the reasons that LAF as a forum for public discussion of our hobby is so hugely important.

Offline Gibby

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2021, 07:44:32 PM »
Indeed! I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts on the issues your group found, and what you feel are the WAB shortcomings that it doubled down on. Some of those might be things I like (I like WAB).

Offline Johnp4000

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2021, 08:24:03 PM »
I must admit I don't really see Swordpoint as a  later version of WAB. WAB used figure removal, SP removes whole bases, shooting is less effective, combat is far slower in SP and there is a need to maintain the line to reduce the effects of losing a combat. There is also momentum and fighting by bases rather than figures which is several major differences to WAB. Unfortunately I would say the army lists do just seem to be a copy and paste from the WAB 2 lists, relying on themed supplements may not the best way forward, as you might be waiting a long time for your period of interest.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 08:29:11 PM by Johnp4000 »

Offline Atheling

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2021, 08:56:26 AM »
I must admit I don't really see Swordpoint as a  later version of WAB. WAB used figure removal, SP removes whole bases, shooting is less effective, combat is far slower in SP and there is a need to maintain the line to reduce the effects of losing a combat. There is also momentum and fighting by bases rather than figures which is several major differences to WAB.

It seems to play as a different game. Any similarities that arguably exist such as Cohension (Leadership), Attacks (how many dice), Defence (armour) are legacies of WAB but essentially play out in a different way on the table top in terms of the overall rules. SP own some things to rule sets that have gone before but I would find it difficult to think of very many that do not follow this pattern to some degree.

Unfortunately I would say the army lists do just seem to be a copy and paste from the WAB 2 lists

On this point to have to agree. The basic army lists in the book are very generic. I probably went white when I was looking at the Medieval (general) supplement as it had huge holes in it, obvious to me (for example, the lack of a Schiltron rile for the Scots). But, if you are willing to wait for the specific supplement then this will be remedied. I am, surprised that such a glaring omission was missed out in the general supplement. That is just one example.

relying on themed supplements may not the best way forward, as you might be waiting a long time for your period of interest.

Whilst in principle I agree that it is a pain to wait for specific supplements- I do think they are worth waiting for as more nuanced rules create more games.

Offline Johnp4000

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2021, 12:17:10 AM »
I was surprised that Swordpoint just like WAB 2 didn't have a feudal English list to cover late 12/13th century. I assume that as the rules don't seem to give any bonus to spears they ignored drafting a shiltron rule, although it does seem an odd omission considering how important this tactic is to a Scottish army? Unless this is included in the HYW supplement?

Online wmyers

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2021, 01:46:37 AM »
I think this just goes to show how great the WAB supplements are (were...).

They gave background history, explained tactics, troop types, battles, pictures, etc.

The Swordpoint supplements are just extremely simplified army lists. Romans do not even have artillery options.

Offline Atheling

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #28 on: January 17, 2021, 08:11:50 AM »
I was surprised that Swordpoint just like WAB 2 didn't have a feudal English list to cover late 12/13th century. I assume that as the rules don't seem to give any bonus to spears they ignored drafting a shiltron rule, although it does seem an odd omission considering how important this tactic is to a Scottish army? Unless this is included in the HYW supplement?

In the HYW supplement from what (little) I know :)

Offline Gibby

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Re: Swordpoint; How to Play Videos by Medieval Warrior Parts I, II and III
« Reply #29 on: January 17, 2021, 10:15:14 AM »
The Swordpoint supplements are just extremely simplified army lists. Romans do not even have artillery options.

That's shocking. It's how you kill a game before it gets anywhere - and the supplements aren't cheap either. That's given me serious pause about the rules.

 

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