The Mad war/ Guerre folle 1485-1488 Pikemen 13/3/21

[bluewillow]

Fab work again Matt 

What those folks would not do to pursue "their rights". I've often struggled to how to find a modern equivalent to equate to the Late Middle Ages Noble Families pursuit of their rights. It's a really difficult one characterise and to put into modern terms.

It was done with arms then, not words and lawyers like today .......

Cheers
Matt

[Atheling]

It was done with arms then, not words and lawyers like today .......

Cheers
Matt

True. Though what I was getting at was the sense in which the nobility saw ownership, even of individuals as "their rights".

[Patrice]

what I was getting at was the sense in which the nobility saw ownership, even of individuals as "their rights".

In all periods of history, members of the ruling class (or whatever you call it) always tend to feel that what they own (or nearly own if they can grab it) is their right... 

[Atheling]

In all periods of history, members of the ruling class (or whatever you call it) always tend to feel that what they own (or nearly own if they can grab it) is their right... 

Well, yes, that much is self evident, but what I was pointing out is that their attitude was different than that of say, modern times. For example, ownership, often involving people. The idea of owning your household, lock stock and the people too.

EDIT: Text changed as I think what I wrote "sounded" a little too sharp.

[bluewillow]

A number of leading Breton nobles mustered to the call of the Breton Ordonances call to arms, like all border regions some families were split, especially those who had lands and Family in the border Marchers of Anjou, Maine and Normandy.

Prince Francois de Rohan the 19 year old son of Jean II Vicomte de Rohan and Marie de Brittany(daughter of Duke Francois I of Brittany) . His Father Jean II Vicomte de Rohan had elected depart his allegiance to Francois I Duke of Brittany to side with the French King handing his border chateaux over to the French armies, coming from the Blois line, he also an ancient claim to the Dukedom of Brittany. 

At the coming of the war young Francois de Rohan like most young Breton Nobles was in the household of the Duke Francois, and in 1487 rallied to the Breton Duke, when Nantes was under siege lead the Arrie Ban of Cornouaillais and Leonard in its relief breaking the siege.

In 1488 at the battle of Saint Aubin du Cormier he lead one of the Breton MAA companies on the right Flank, he was killed it was thought by French artillery.




full information and his companions on my blog
https://stormandconquest.blogspot.com/2020/12/prince-francois-de-rohan-and-breton-maa.html


the battlefield tour is here
https://www.lhoteldeherce.fr/product-page/breton-war-of-independance

cheers
matt

[Patrice]

(ooops error)

[Patrice]

Prince Francois de Rohan the 19 year old son of Jean II Vicomte de Rohan and Marie de Brittany(daughter of Duke Francois I of Brittany) . His Father Jean II Vicomte de Rohan had elected depart his allegiance to Francois I Duke of Brittany to side with the French King handing his border chateaux over to the French armies, coming from the Blois line, he also an ancient claim to the Dukedom of Brittany. 

At the coming of the war young Francois de Rohan like most young Breton Nobles was in the household of the Duke Francois, and in 1487 rallied to the Breton Duke

It was sometimes a practice for noble families... One family member on each side... Those on the losing side would be punished by the winner (king or duke...) who would say: "You are a traitor! I confiscate your lands and I will own them under my crown!" ...and the other member of the family, who was on the winning side, would say: "Um, my lord, I was on your side in this war, and this is the lands of my family..." and the king, or duke, was compelled to say: "OK I give them to you!" ...so it was back in family property.

[bluewillow]

It was sometimes a practice for noble families... One family member on each side... Those on the losing side would be punished by the winner (king or duke...) who would say: "You are a traitor! I confiscate your lands and I will own them under my crown!" ...and the other member of the family, who was on the winning side, would say: "Um, my lord, I was on your side in this war, and this is the lands of my family..." and the king, or duke, was compelled to say: "OK I give them to you!" ...so it was back in family property.

yes very common, particularly on the Border Marchers of Maine, Normandy, Anjou and Brittany. The Laval Family also done the same François de Laval fought for Brittany and Comte Guy de Laval for France.

cheers
Matt

[bluewillow]

 Another English Archer unit complete, or are they..... this unit will be a proxy English unit. The Bretons placed 1700 men with Tabard of the Red Cross of St George, the victorious French at the battle of Saint-Aubin-du-Cormier put everyone wearing the Red Cross to the sword, only the young squire of Sir Edward Woodville (Lord Scales) survived as he was wearing his own arms.



Cheers
Matt

[Atheling]

Lovely Matt 

[Shahbahraz]

It was sometimes a practice for noble families... One family member on each side... Those on the losing side would be punished by the winner (king or duke...) who would say: "You are a traitor! I confiscate your lands and I will own them under my crown!" ...and the other member of the family, who was on the winning side, would say: "Um, my lord, I was on your side in this war, and this is the lands of my family..." and the king, or duke, was compelled to say: "OK I give them to you!" ...so it was back in family property.

Also a common practice in the various Sottish wars, where the son would declare for Douglas or Stewart, and the next son for the opposite side. The Stewarts tended to be better at it, with the Campbells, who somehow always contrived to be on the winning side.

[bluewillow]

Mercenary Swiss from the canton of Saint Gall

Perry Miniatures



Cheers
Matt

[Atheling]

Lovely stuff Matt 

[commissarmoody]

Nice looking band of mercs.

[bluewillow]

Swiss Pikemen mercenaries from the canton of Saint Gall, Perry miniatures



Cheers
Matt