MUSKETS & TOMAHAWKS 2 - ANYONE PLAYED IT YET?

[Pan Marek]

If so, what do you think of it?  Especially compared to the first edition?

I played M&T2 for the first time a couple weeks ago.  The use of D10 over D6 does not seem to effect game play much, rather it appears to be used to give room for more weapon types as they move into the 19th century.   The big change is getting a "hand" of 3 cards to play, rather than the previous 1 card pulled from the deck dictating who/what has an action.  Also, the cards can be
from either side.  Thus giving the holding player a chance to force actions on one's opponent.  When you use an opponent's card out of a hand, the player gets a command point to use for actions without a card.

Here's my take:  It appears to play smoothly.   But I also think the rules have taken a step towards being more "gamey".  It makes for more decision making, but more to deal with interruptions rather than to deal with your opponents actions on the table.  The deck also has "clock cards" to reshuffle the deck.   We played without this, as its a little complex.   If used, it would mean the deck gets reshuffled when a clock card is drawn.  Thus, the deck never ends and there are no "turns" per se.

I see the reshuffling as making it difficult to have a scenario where certain troops appear later in the game.  How does one do that if the deck never runs out?

I'll need to play the new version multiple times before I have a final opinion.  The authors did not "break" the game, but they may have over-complicated it for no good reason.

[racm32]

First: For reinforcements coming in later in the game check page 62 of the core rule book.

Second. I haven't played the 2nd addition yet but as I am supposed to run a demo game in Feb I have been reading through the rules regularly. I would agree the new addition has a more gamey feel to it compared to the 1st. It straight up says it is designed specifically for 2 players were the 1st felt like it designed for 2+. I rarely play games of just 2 players.

Third: Deck will only get reshuffled once all 3 clock cards are drawn. That is to keep you guessing from what cards might be coming up and what cards your opponent are holding. Things you would normally check at "end of turn" are done when clock cards are drawn based on the specific scenario.

Fourth: While I am not really fond of the new card mechanic I do think the command points are necessary when using it. It rewards you for playing your opponents cards. While it does add more complexity it does give more tactical options. I dont think the first addition needed those changes to the card mechanics but thats just my opinion.

[Pan Marek]

Thanks for the heads up about reinforcements.   I read through the rules once, and wanted to get a feel for the mechanics sooner rather than later.  Its clear I need to read them again, more closely this time.

I figured the clock cards were designed to prevent "card counting".   I've played the first edition more times than I can count.
In many games, it became obvious what was left in the deck.  Never really messed up any games that I can remember.

We too had mostly multi-player games.  I saw that the new rules suggested with more than 2 players, one should be the "commander".  The authors obviously never played with our crew, where everyone is his own general!

I agree with you about the card mechanics not needing a change.   When you get around to playing, give us your take on how it went.   For me, I found the first edition a pretty darn good set, with only the melee rules bothering me much.  That's been fixed in a simple way, and rifle shooting is a bit clearer.   I needed to buy this set because both my original book and my original cards are pretty beat up.

[SteveBurt]

V2 works fine multi-player; that's how we play it. Each player gets different groups (maybe one has the regulars and the Indians, the other the irregulars and the settlers). Which card to play and whether to use command points is either decided between the players or you can have one CinC who decides,

[racm32]

V2 works fine multi-player; that's how we play it. Each player gets different groups (maybe one has the regulars and the Indians, the other the irregulars and the settlers). Which card to play and whether to use command points is either decided between the players or you can have one CinC who decides,

When playing multi-player games does each side keep the pool of command points or have you changed it in anyway for each player?

[FlyXwire]

I think your impressions are similar to mine PM.

My group eventually settled on the 3-card hand when playing v.1 (which was an option in the first set), but then we came to play that with two separate decks divided up for each side to draw their own faction cards from, and this helps balance out the random draw vagaries vs. the desire to encourage some in-hand planning to occur from turn to turn....(and without pips, points, or gimmicks).

If you want to play games above skirmish level (and with M&T), then the randomness of unit activations versus a desire to encourage players to employ tactics and approach a game (especially with a team of players) by having a battle plan, then this becomes more important at the Brigade level of command.

(much of this involves the passive vs. the intentional orders debate ultimately) 

[Pan Marek]

Thanks, folks.  Your replies give me quite alot to think about.


CAPTAIN BLOOD:  Please accept my apologies about the cross-posting.  A habit left over from "that other site".

[SteveBurt]

When playing multi-player games does each side keep the pool of command points or have you changed it in anyway for each player?

Pool for the whole side; the players get to argue about how to use them

[SteveBurt]

I think your impressions are similar to mine PM.

My group eventually settled on the 3-card hand when playing v.1 (which was an option in the first set), but then we came to play that with two separate decks divided up for each side to draw their own faction cards from, and this helps balance out the random draw vagaries vs. the desire to encourage some in-hand planning to occur from turn to turn....(and without pips, points, or gimmicks).

If you want to play games above skirmish level (and with M&T), then the randomness of unit activations versus a desire to encourage players to employ tactics and approach a game (especially with a team of players) by having a battle plan, then this becomes more important at the Brigade level of command.

(much of this involves the passive vs. the intentional orders debate ultimately)

Which is true, but the nice thing about M&T is that activation is all troops of a type, not one unit, and that the command points allow you some leeway if the cards don't fall well. So we find it scales up very well.

[flags_of_war]

Sadly with the covid restriction...no