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Author Topic: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added  (Read 1489 times)

Offline Yankeepedlar01

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2253
    • http://talesfromghq.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-are-very-welcome-at-tales-from-ghq.html
Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« on: November 22, 2020, 03:53:55 PM »

The bulk of my Carthaginian army for the Punic Wars project I've been working on since May.. Much more about it over on my blog ~
www.talesfromghq.blogspot.co.uk
« Last Edit: December 05, 2020, 06:37:00 PM by Yankeepedlar01 »
"There is no point in being stupid unless you show it!"

http://talesfromghq.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline has.been

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 3213
Re: Carthaginian Army
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2020, 04:42:50 PM »
Very nice.  My first opponent had a Carthaginian army.
I lost to it often with my Romans, Early Imperial not Republican,
but I was eleven & knew no better.  Airfix didn't do Republicans.

Offline SJWi

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 357
Re: Carthaginian Army
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2020, 08:56:23 PM »
Beautiful figures. I recognise the A&A Miniatures elephants. Who produces the infantry?

Thanks.

Offline Yankeepedlar01

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2253
    • http://talesfromghq.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-are-very-welcome-at-tales-from-ghq.html
Re: Carthaginian Army
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2020, 08:29:24 AM »
Beautiful figures. I recognise the A&A Miniatures elephants. Who produces the infantry?
The figures are from Aventine Miniatures, A&A, Crusader Miniatures and Wargames Foundry.

Offline Burnin Coal

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 541
Re: Carthaginian Army
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »
Thatís a great looking game...itís highly motivational to see entire armies on the table - keeps me painting knowing what can be achieved....I enjoyed reading your blog too....thanks for sharing
Figures painted 2020 : 100

Offline Yankeepedlar01

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2253
    • http://talesfromghq.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-are-very-welcome-at-tales-from-ghq.html
Re: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2020, 06:39:18 PM »

Republican Roman army added to the mix. More over on my blog for the (very) odd interested reader ~
www.talesfromghq.blogspot.co.uk

Offline Ray Rivers

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5552
Re: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2020, 08:49:08 PM »
2 wonderful armies!  :-*

A long time ago I had the same project, with both Roman and Carthaginian armies. Unfortunately, I lost interest about half way through the project.

Looking at yours, makes we wish I had finished mine.

Offline olicana

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 867
    • Olicanalad's Games
Re: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2020, 10:00:15 AM »
Very nice. :-*

About Allied and Roman cavalry deployments. The two histories that are followed, Polybius and Livy (the latter seemingly using Polybius as his own main source), who both wrote well after the event, put the Roman cavalry on the right and the allied cavalry on the left of consular armies. All well and good except that, the allied cavalry outnumbers the Roman cavalry by 3:1 but both wings perform equally well (or as badly) as each other, and the Roman cavalry wing is never specifically targeted by the Carthaginians who deploy their cavalry more or less equally to each wing - funny that, don't you think?

Here's a thought. One third of the Allied cavalry were hived off from the rest to perform 'special duties' such as scouting and given the rather splendid title of Extraordinarii (spelling from memory). Now, if you take this specifically separated third and add it to the Roman third, you suddenly get two equal wings of cavalry using only existing structures. Extraordinary, don't you think? It's a little theory of my own, totally unprovable of course, that I use to make the historical narratives of the battles work a little better. Also it justifies my preferred deployment of equal Roman cavalry wings on the table-top - because a weak 'Roman only' wing always gets specifically targeted by my opponents, of course, and why wouldn't it.

It's a thought, isn't it.

Edit: Oh, and one more thought on this. Latin Allied states were littered with Roman settlers who had been encouraged to relocate to (colonise?) the Latin states and help run them with the incentive of an improvement in social status (Rome society was strictly class structured): A Roman run bureaucracy is how the Latins became Romanised so quickly. This would mean that many more Romans in the Allied states would become 'Equestrian class' than normal, and consequently eligible for cavalry service. Taking this one step further, could one third of the Allied cavalry have been made up these 'Allied Equestrian Romans' and, if so, were these the Extraordinarii and, if so, wouldn't that mean all the cavalry of the right wing (including extraordinarii) would actually be Roman thus making the histories and me right? All Romans, no matter where they lived, were always considered Roman and indistinguishable from their peers: no Roman author would dare to suggest otherwise.

It might be a case of semantics but, the statement "The Allied states raised three time more cavalry than the Romans, the Romans fighting on the right, the Allies on the left." doesn't necessarily mean that only one third fought on the right because many citizens of the Allies were, in fact, Roman and, I suspect, of the higher classes (the Allies probably didn't need immigrant artizans).
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 10:54:16 AM by olicana »

Online aphillathehun

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 457
Re: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2020, 01:24:13 PM »

Nice armies.  The colors give them a unified look without making theme too regular.  Nice figures and nice painting of them.

Offline Hu Rhu

  • Supporting Adventurer
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • *
  • Posts: 2837
Re: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2020, 03:41:08 PM »
Very nice. :-*

About Allied and Roman cavalry deployments. The two histories that are followed, Polybius and Livy (the latter seemingly using Polybius as his own main source), who both wrote well after the event, put the Roman cavalry on the right and the allied cavalry on the left of consular armies. All well and good except that, the allied cavalry outnumbers the Roman cavalry by 3:1 but both wings perform equally well (or as badly) as each other, and the Roman cavalry wing is never specifically targeted by the Carthaginians who deploy their cavalry more or less equally to each wing - funny that, don't you think?

Here's a thought. One third of the Allied cavalry were hived off from the rest to perform 'special duties' such as scouting and given the rather splendid title of Extraordinarii (spelling from memory). Now, if you take this specifically separated third and add it to the Roman third, you suddenly get two equal wings of cavalry using only existing structures. Extraordinary, don't you think? It's a little theory of my own, totally unprovable of course, that I use to make the historical narratives of the battles work a little better. Also it justifies my preferred deployment of equal Roman cavalry wings on the table-top - because a weak 'Roman only' wing always gets specifically targeted by my opponents, of course, and why wouldn't it.

It's a thought, isn't it.

Edit: Oh, and one more thought on this. Latin Allied states were littered with Roman settlers who had been encouraged to relocate to (colonise?) the Latin states and help run them with the incentive of an improvement in social status (Rome society was strictly class structured): A Roman run bureaucracy is how the Latins became Romanised so quickly. This would mean that many more Romans in the Allied states would become 'Equestrian class' than normal, and consequently eligible for cavalry service. Taking this one step further, could one third of the Allied cavalry have been made up these 'Allied Equestrian Romans' and, if so, were these the Extraordinarii and, if so, wouldn't that mean all the cavalry of the right wing (including extraordinarii) would actually be Roman thus making the histories and me right? All Romans, no matter where they lived, were always considered Roman and indistinguishable from their peers: no Roman author would dare to suggest otherwise.

It might be a case of semantics but, the statement "The Allied states raised three time more cavalry than the Romans, the Romans fighting on the right, the Allies on the left." doesn't necessarily mean that only one third fought on the right because many citizens of the Allies were, in fact, Roman and, I suspect, of the higher classes (the Allies probably didn't need immigrant artizans).

That is exactly how I have organised my Republican Army.  Using Hail Ceasar army lists, there is no discernable difference between Latin allied and Roman cavalry.

Offline FierceKitty

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1198
Re: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2020, 02:09:12 AM »
Some good ideas there about cavalry matters.
The laws of probability do not apply to my dice in wargames or to my finesses in bridge.

Offline Yankeepedlar01

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2253
    • http://talesfromghq.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-are-very-welcome-at-tales-from-ghq.html
The Punic Wars project ~ Phases 1-3 completed
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2020, 12:11:49 PM »

28mm figures. Mostly Aventine Miniatures with others from A&A Miniatures, Foundry, Agema Miniatures, and Crusader Miniatures. Shield transfers from LBM and bases from Warbases as ever. More over on my blog for the interested ~
www.talesfromghq.blogspot.co.uk

Offline Tonhel

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 317
Re: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2020, 01:42:15 PM »
Fantastic work! :-*

Offline Yankeepedlar01

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2253
    • http://talesfromghq.blogspot.com/2011/11/you-are-very-welcome-at-tales-from-ghq.html
Re: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2020, 05:58:47 PM »

Two more bases of Allied Italian cavalry added to the Republican Roman army.

Offline Frostie

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 211
Re: Carthaginian Army with Republican Roman army added
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2021, 12:01:16 PM »
Very nice armies.  I have them in 15mm.  I have just finished rebasing 600 Romans from FOG style bases to Imputus style

 

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