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Author Topic: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): What's the situation for customers and traders?  (Read 79381 times)

Offline WillieB

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #135 on: January 29, 2021, 06:44:45 PM »
Those surcharges seem pretty steep. Can you break down of any of them for us?

It would be very interesting to see exactly how much is VAT, how much handling fee, how much duty etc.

What's a reasonable retail discount, Willie B?

I can give you a breakdown of mine. 14€ p&p, 16€ duty and 9 € handling costs.
I would have to ask Vincent and Marcel how theirs broke down.

As for  reasonable retail discount - it depends a bit on volume- but during my shopkeeping years I usually got anywhere between 30 and 44 %
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Offline WillieB

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #136 on: January 29, 2021, 06:49:23 PM »
@WillieB
Are you based in Germany? Was the surcharged cause by our Customs Office because they checked it and send the parcel to you?

No, I'm in Belgium. And as you can see it wasn't just me. In the meanwhile at least half a dozen more of my fellow wargamers in Belgium and the Netherlands have been 'hit' by these.
Only small parcels send by Royal Mail seem to fly under the radar.
But seriously, an added 50% in costs? 
So what is going to happen is very simple. if we can find an EU supplier ( even though his initial cost per figure is a bit higher) we'll still order. Ordering directly form the UK is a no- no.

Offline Citizen Sade

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #137 on: January 29, 2021, 07:04:55 PM »
I can give you a breakdown of mine. 14€ p&p, 16€ duty and 9 € handling costs.
I would have to ask Vincent and Marcel how theirs broke down.

As for  reasonable retail discount - it depends a bit on volume- but during my shopkeeping years I usually got anywhere between 30 and 44 %
Thanks, but why are you paying for P&P on delivery rather than when you order? Is the €16 just duty or does it include local VAT?

Yes, I think a discount of around 40% for distributors is common across a number of industries. The problem, of course, is how to build the flexibility to offer that into your pricing without alienating your domestic customers.


Offline WillieB

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #138 on: January 29, 2021, 07:16:16 PM »
Thanks, but why are you paying for P&P on delivery rather than when you order? Is the €16 just duty or does it include local VAT?

Yes, I think a discount of around 40% for distributors is common across a number of industries. The problem, of course, is how to build the flexibility to offer that into your pricing without alienating your domestic customers.

Depends on the company. Most include the p&p when you order at checkout. Others (not many) ask for p&p separately. Probably because their software isn't up to calculating it at the time of the order?
The 16€ included the local VAT I guess, but the UK VAT wasn't deducted as the company in question operated under the £85.000 threshold.

Offline Citizen Sade

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #139 on: January 29, 2021, 08:12:26 PM »
OK. It strikes me that the only change is that VAT and handling fees are now charged on imports into the EU from the U.K. and from the EU into the U.K.

There have been lots of posts about the U.K. to EU trade, but what are EU suppliers going to do to help their U.K. customers? Are they seeking local distributors? Should U.K. gamers be looking to start a list of domestic suppliers to buy from? I ask these questions to highlight the rabbit holes that some posters here might inadvertently take us down.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 08:31:16 PM by Citizen Sade »

Offline Hammers

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #140 on: January 29, 2021, 08:40:17 PM »
OK. It strikes me that the only change is that VAT and handling fees are now charged on imports into the EU from the U.K. and from the EU into the U.K.

There have been lots of posts about the U.K. to EU trade, but what are EU suppliers going to do to help their U.K. customers? Are they seeking local distributors? Should U.K. gamers be looking to start a list of domestic suppliers to buy from? I ask these questions to highlight the rabbit holes that some posters here might inadvertently take us down.

Believe me, I look upon this as nothing but a bilaterally shit situation .
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 06:18:12 PM by Hammers »

Offline Wellington

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #141 on: January 29, 2021, 09:12:59 PM »
OK. It strikes me that the only change is that VAT and handling fees are now charged on imports into the EU from the U.K. and from the EU into the U.K.

There have been lots of posts about the U.K. to EU trade, but what are EU suppliers going to do to help their U.K. customers? Are they seeking local distributors? Should U.K. gamers be looking to start a list of domestic suppliers to buy from? I ask these questions to highlight the rabbit holes that some posters here might inadvertently take us down.

It seems at the moment there are no border checks for stuff from EU into UK. Therfore it should be no problem, but as mentioned before many haulers stopped serving the channel route, there might be a lack of transport.

And it feels like 90 % of all miniatures coming from UK, so you shouldn't worry getting toys.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2021, 09:37:21 PM by Wellington »
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Offline dijit

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #142 on: January 29, 2021, 10:12:11 PM »
Well a report from things here in Denmark. We'll be paying a 160dkk (roughly 21.5€ or £19) handling fee, and then 25% VAT on the cost of the item and P&P. My experience ordering from the States is smaller parcels seem to often fly under the radar, but who you're hit, you can pay more than the cost of the contents, whilst larger parcels will certainly be hit. Right not it seems better to have a parcel sent to my brother in Birmingham who can then repackage it as a private parcel and send it on to me and pay double the postage.

Offline Mammoth miniatures

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #143 on: January 30, 2021, 12:48:04 PM »
OK. It strikes me that the only change is that VAT and handling fees are now charged on imports into the EU from the U.K. and from the EU into the U.K.

There have been lots of posts about the U.K. to EU trade, but what are EU suppliers going to do to help their U.K. customers? Are they seeking local distributors? Should U.K. gamers be looking to start a list of domestic suppliers to buy from? I ask these questions to highlight the rabbit holes that some posters here might inadvertently take us down.

In a wider sense orders here are having similar issues - massive delays, sudden and inexplicably expensive customs charges etc.
I think however that the issue hasn't really hit the everyday consumer yet. supermarkets and certain specialist industries have already said they can no longer get things they need to keep operating as import costs from the EU have forced an end to trading from certain suppliers. we're still got goods held up in lorries waiting to be cleared.

I think more likely we'll find the impact on UK customers comes in a few weeks, when existing stockpiles of certain things run dry and restocks get delayed or become inaccessible.

As to miniatures - well alot of them are made here (the joys of being a rock made of tin.)so in hobby terms nothing will change for domestic wargamers right now. What migth change is all the nice extra hobby stuff we like will become harder to get/more expensive. Things like vallejo paints/mig pigments/corvus belli miniatures and all those lovely European diorama suppliers are likely going to find it hard to import without a UK distributor. Kingsley and Simple are the two biggest distros that i remember from ordering stock and they had trouble getting vallejo paints at the best of times...

Offline Ray Rivers

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #144 on: January 30, 2021, 04:48:05 PM »
Believe me, K look upon the situation as nothing but a bilaterally shit situation.

As I have said before, economically, these are barriers to trade (similar to tariffs) designed to protect domestic producers. So let's be blunt.

All was well when the UK was inside the EU, but nobody seemed to care about US manufacturers trying to export their product to the EU/UK... which due to these same kinda barriers such as "handling charges" found it pretty much impossible to compete. In fact, when an American manufacturer came up with a cool idea and put it on kickstarter the very first "demand" was for a UK distributor to get around all the barriers to trade that the EU had in place to protect its manufacturers.

It appears to me that what we are seeing now is what US folks have had to deal with for decades. For example, how many folks in the UK/EU use Privateer Press P3 paints? The UK has barriers to trade to protect their manufacturers and are now faced with an EU which uses the same methods.

If UK folks want to sell their stuff in the EU at a reasonable price, they will have to have a distributor to do so, just as the US folks need to have a UK distributor to sell their stuff in the UK. The same goes for EU producers who will also need to have a UK distributor if they want to sell to the UK.

Welcome to the world of protectionism.

Offline Hammers

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #145 on: January 30, 2021, 06:21:40 PM »
As I have said before, economically, these are barriers to trade (similar to tariffs) designed to protect domestic producers. So let's be blunt.

All was well when the UK was inside the EU, but nobody seemed to care about US manufacturers trying to export their product to the EU/UK... which due to these same kinda barriers such as "handling charges" found it pretty much impossible to compete. In fact, when an American manufacturer came up with a cool idea and put it on kickstarter the very first "demand" was for a UK distributor to get around all the barriers to trade that the EU had in place to protect its manufacturers.

It appears to me that what we are seeing now is what US folks have had to deal with for decades. For example, how many folks in the UK/EU use Privateer Press P3 paints? The UK has barriers to trade to protect their manufacturers and are now faced with an EU which uses the same methods.

If UK folks want to sell their stuff in the EU at a reasonable price, they will have to have a distributor to do so, just as the US folks need to have a UK distributor to sell their stuff in the UK. The same goes for EU producers who will also need to have a UK distributor if they want to sell to the UK.

Welcome to the world of protectionism.

Well, there are substitutes to Reaper Paints and P3 on the European market. The problem we see now is that a lot of UK products are *without* obvious substitutes are becoming more expensive.

Offline Mammoth miniatures

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #146 on: January 30, 2021, 06:43:25 PM »
Well, there are substitutes to Reaper Paints and P3 on the European market. The problem we see now is that a lot of UK products are *without* obvious substitutes are becoming more expensive.

I think regardless of the specific product, Rays point stands. Without wanting to drift too close to the political shore, The rhetoric of post brexit trade has for the last 4 years presented to UK businesses the idea that trade would be frictionless and that any protectionist measures would be implemented by the uk, and that the EU wouldn't DARE make the sensible and obvious decision to treat the uk like any other non bloc country. For quite a few businesses the reality that Britain does not in fact control global trade like it once did has only just hit home - and that reality has been masked by byzantine government awareness campaigns with no real info and a wider rhetoric about how great it'll be to export. the fact that we're an island and it's really easy to stop exports from an island was seemingly never planned for.

Still, there's a nice profit to be made in smuggling in the coming years.

Offline Ray Rivers

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #147 on: January 30, 2021, 07:08:58 PM »
Still, there's a nice profit to be made in smuggling in the coming years.

This is also an opportunity for EU (and UK) distributors to expand operations. The UK, I think well do fine, as they have many distributors such as North Star which also sells products from the Americas (or at least Canada).

You all realize, of course, that protectionist policies are meant to drive up the prices of imports which not only protects manufacturers from foreign competition but also provides incentives for new manufacturing. It is the antithesis of free trade, however, as you insulate your country from competition which results in lower prices.

How this will all play out, I haven't a clue. But when we see the cluster f@#k occurring with trade of all kinds ATM sooner or later (due to far greater integration than either side realized, I believe) folks are going to have to stop insulting one another and work towards a solution.

In the mean time, we will all just have to make due as best as possible, and the only way forward that I can see is the use of distributors on both sides to ease the pain (because there will be increases in price no matter what if this continues).
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 09:28:05 PM by Ray Rivers »

Offline Citizen Sade

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #148 on: January 30, 2021, 08:10:41 PM »
What protectionist policies are you referring to?

Distributors can certainly ease the pain for customers. Remember though that manufacturers have to offer them a significant discount. Some will decide that the resulting business is not worth having.

Offline Ray Rivers

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #149 on: January 30, 2021, 08:58:11 PM »
What protectionist policies are you referring to?

Duties and handling costs.

Distributors can certainly ease the pain for customers. Remember though that manufacturers have to offer them a significant discount. Some will decide that the resulting business is not worth having.

That is their choice. But remember if I can't buy a fine British whiskey because of its increased price or non availability, I will just buy a Spanish one. In fact, it would actually spur the production of premium Spanish whiskies to satisfy demand as they would not have to compete with British ones and almost certainly be cheaper. As a bar owner I can tell you that 30 years ago the Spanish almost always drank Spanish DYC whiskey and Larios gin. But over the years they now almost exclusively buy British products with very few drinking Spanish brands. This could change radically very quickly if this nonsense continues.

Usually in such circumstances "opportunities" are created by the vacuum... which entrepreneurs will exploit. Our market is no different than any other.

Overall though, it is a lose lose situation for everyone in the long run.

 

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