Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): What's the situation for customers and traders?

[WillieB]

Anybody have any news about how Foundry is handling all this?

Do they have a EU distributor?

I'd like to buy some paints.

One of the parcels I mentioned was from Foundry.

[anch_io]

One of the parcels I mentioned was from Foundry.

I also paid 25+ pounds on VAT and handling, which made an order about 30% more expensive.  And I ordered the items on 18th Decemeber, which they have sent on 5th January.

When I asked them politely what happend and can they return to me the VAT I already paid in the UK, they stopped answering e-mails.

They will not see my money again.

[Fighting15s]

When I asked them politely what happend and can they return to me the VAT I already paid in the UK, they stopped answering e-mails.

Because the sale was before 1 January, they had to charge VAT on it. They won't refund it because it's money due to HMRC.

The potential risk of double-charging VAT - on purchase and on arriving in the EU on 1 January or later - is why some of us shut our shops to EU orders in mid-December. It's the risk any EU customer took if they ordered from a UK company at the time, given that any order might legally take 28 days to fulfil. Caveat emptor.

[Ray Rivers]

The potential risk of double-charging VAT - on purchase and on arriving in the EU on 1 January or later - is why some of us shut our shops to EU orders in mid-December.

Is this a bug or a feature?

Since nobody seems to be up to it, I will probably start a thread on EU resources in the near future.

[anch_io]

Because the sale was before 1 January, they had to charge VAT on it. They won't refund it because it's money due to HMRC.

I know they had to. Death and taxes and all that...

They also state on their webpages that “all orders are sent out in a day or two”. Beacause they did not do what they have promised I also had to pay my taxes (plus some “handling” extra).

And I am not angry because I had to pay it (I am not glad either), but because of the lack of communication on their part. I am aware of the situation we are living in. It was probably wrong of me to order so late, but hey, it was two weeks before “the deadline” - why not? Even with all the holidays and the quarantine, I think that someone could have found time to post it. Or, they could have at least sent an email saying “we are terribly sorry, because of the COVID situation we are running late with sending out orders, we cannot cast everything in time”. They also could have canceled the order, as the moment that I have received the confirmation on 5th I asked just the same, expecting this would happen (“oh no, it is already in the post but you can refuse it”). When I wrote back asking who than pays for the return postage and when will I receive my refund, they did not answer. When I received the bill from my customs, they also did not answer.

And I did not ask for the return of VAT, but for “partial refund”. After all, their tardiness and lack of communication led to extra costs on my side. And all of this could have been avoided.

Caveat emptor indeed... But what happened with “customer is always right”? Does not translate well in Latin? 

I guess I was just too much spoilt by the services from companies such as Warlord, North Star, PSC... Even Caliver answer to their e-mails. 

Ok, enough with my grievances... If anyone knows where in the Europe I could find Foundry’s stuff, I would be most grateful. I still really love their miniatures, even though their business practices are lacking...

[Fighting15s]

Is this a bug or a feature?

Since nobody seems to be up to it, I will probably start a thread on EU resources in the near future.

It was a possibility. I wasn't sure whether it would happen, but I acted so that none of my EU customers would suffer. When you cast to order it's not always possible to turn round orders quickly at Christmas, plus with the world and its dog using internet shopping at the time the ability of the mail service to cope was also in doubt.

[Ray Rivers]

...plus with the world and its dog using internet shopping at the time the ability of the mail service to cope was also in doubt.

Indeed. Port of entries seem to clogged all over the world causing lots of delays. Personally I haven't ordered anything in 2021 because of this problem, more than anything else.

[Fighting15s]

They also state on their webpages that “all orders are sent out in a day or two”. Beacause they did not do what they have promised I also had to pay my taxes (plus some “handling” extra).

And I did not ask for the return of VAT, but for “partial refund”. After all, their tardiness and lack of communication led to extra costs on my side. And all of this could have been avoided.

Caveat emptor indeed... But what happened with “customer is always right”? Does not translate well in Latin? 

Foundry states on its website: "So, while we generally get your order to you in a few days, for orders shipped within the UK you need to allow 21 days for delivery, 31 days for Europe and 6 weeks for all other destinations." Your order went in on a Friday and it is highly unlikely it would have been dealt with until the 21st (Monday) when most UK businesses would prioritise orders to the UK because they would be likely to arrive for Christmas. Foundry was also shut for Christmas from 24 December to 3 January inclusive, so clearly your order was dealt with as soon as possible after reopening. After mid-December, with last posting date to Europe gone (and one of the UK's internal last posting dates gone), and a courier delivery system bursting to overflowing with everyone using it for Christmas deliveries and Brexit-beating orders, you were, I feel, indeed chancing your arm.

Sorry, I read your statement “can they return to me the VAT I already paid in the UK” to mean something different from "And I did not ask for the return of VAT".

The customer is right never applies when anything involves HMRC or HMRC procedures. In those instances, HMRC is always right.

[Fighting15s]

Indeed. Port of entries seem to clogged all over the world causing lots of delays. Personally I haven't ordered anything in 2021 because of this problem, more than anything else.

Traditional post seems to be coping well enough, apart from the usual sticky countries in pre-pandemic times.  It certainly doesn't seem as slow as when the virus first hit, when 10 weeks to the US and 7 weeks to the EU was normal. Or at least the number of customers complaining that they can't believe it takes that long to get an order from one part of the UK to another country during a pandemic has dropped to zero.

[Grumpy Gnome]

Well that package my mate sent on the 13th of Jan was finally available for pickup at our local depot here in Germany, with a lovely customs bill of around 25%.... taking about as long and making it about as expensive as getting things from the States. Joy.

[Fighting15s]

Well that package my mate sent on the 13th of Jan was finally available for pickup at our local depot here in Germany, with a lovely customs bill of around 25%.... taking about as long and making it about as expensive as getting things from the States. Joy.

That sounds about right. The UK is now treated no differently from the US by the EU. 25% isn't terrible, though. Did it arrive via Deutsche Post and what did they charge for tax collection?

[Grumpy Gnome]

EDIT: Thinking on it, the slip they left yesterday for us to pick it up today was marked Deutsch Post. And I seem to recall there was a small fee in addition to the custom tax. Is that what you meant? I forget exactly how much it was but it was in the Region of a few Euros.

[Fighting15s]

EDIT: Thinking on it, the slip they left yesterday for us to pick it up today was marked Deutsch Post. And I seem to recall there was a small fee in addition to the custom tax. Is that what you meant? I forget exactly how much it was but it was in the Region of a few Euros.

Yes. As I tried to highlight a page or so ago, Deutsche Post has quite a low fee in comparison with other services. German standard rate VAT is 19% (?) - if you were due to pay VAT on the figures anyway pre-Brexit, because the UK supplier was VAT registered (but deducts it post-Brexit for export), then you've not paid too much extra. Slightly less tax (19% against the UK's 20%), plus a handling fee of 6.5 euros. The only real extra in this instance is the relatively small handling fee, plus the annoyance of having to pay tax and handling separately.

It's only bad if the UK supplier wasn't VAT registered, or didn't deduct the VAT for various reason (also outlined earlier).  Then you have paid 25% more! In which case, in future look for UK suppliers that are VAT registered and actually deduct tax for export (there are perfectly legal reasons why they may not).

After 1 July, look for UK suppliers who have registered for the EU's IOSS (Import One-Stop Shop) scheme and will prepay tax and therefore potentially eliminate the handling fee. There are, however, still not enough details of the IOSS scheme to determine how possible or worthwhile this will be. But Royal Mail Click and Drop, which a number of us use, already includes an entry for the EU's VAT pre-registration scheme, so the ground is clearly being prepared if not yet ready.

I'm just trying to put some perspective on the charges on import: in some cases in theory you're only a handling fee and an annoyance factor worse off. It just depends whether you would have paid tax anyway, i.e. at the point of purchase pre-Brexit.

[Fighting15s]

Ok, enough with my grievances... If anyone knows where in the Europe I could find Foundry’s stuff, I would be most grateful. I still really love their miniatures, even though their business practices are lacking...

Figures and paints, I believe, at https://www.miniaturicum.de

[Grumpy Gnome]

OK, now the light has suddenly come on. I am quite the dunce sometimes. Thanks for helping me understand this issue better.