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Author Topic: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): What's the situation for customers and traders?  (Read 79343 times)

Offline anch_io

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 56
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #180 on: February 04, 2021, 04:59:37 PM »
Figures and paints, I believe, at https://www.miniaturicum.de

Thanks! Noticed that on the other topic... will certainly look them up...

Just a question - Warlord in their recent newsletter offered DDP (delivery duties paid) service to EU customers.  Is that part of IOSS scheme you’re talking about, or is that something completely different?

Does anyone know more?

Offline Andrew Rae

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 701
    • Statuesque Miniatures
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #181 on: February 04, 2021, 05:57:05 PM »
Thanks! Noticed that on the other topic... will certainly look them up...

Just a question - Warlord in their recent newsletter offered DDP (delivery duties paid) service to EU customers.  Is that part of IOSS scheme you’re talking about, or is that something completely different?

Does anyone know more?

Something completely different. DDP means their courier with tally up VAT due on import, duty if applicable and fees, and bill Warlord for the cost, rather than the customer.

Offline Fighting15s

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 226
    • Fighting 15s
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #182 on: February 04, 2021, 10:30:59 PM »
Thanks! Noticed that on the other topic... will certainly look them up...

Just a question - Warlord in their recent newsletter offered DDP (delivery duties paid) service to EU customers.  Is that part of IOSS scheme you’re talking about, or is that something completely different?

Does anyone know more?

No, that's something else. As far as I'm aware it in effect uses the freight company as a customs agent: the freight company handles the tax and bills Warlord for it. Customs agents are a cost beyond the means of most small wargames businesses and not really suited to those of us who post out orders via Royal Mail rather than use couriers. Andrew Rae (Statuesque Miniatures) probably knows more than I do about this. :)
Ian
Fighting 15s
Gladiator Miniatures, Fighting 15s Flags, Martian Empires and Flashing Blade Miniatures
https://www.fighting15s.com

Offline Fighting15s

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 226
    • Fighting 15s
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #183 on: February 04, 2021, 10:46:50 PM »
OK, now the light has suddenly come on. I am quite the dunce sometimes. Thanks for helping me understand this issue better.

NP. I'm basically just trying to illustrate when the charge on import is not as bad as it seems. You can still use some UK wargames businesses and not be much worse off in total compared with before 1 January.

The change of tax regime seems really bad for small UK wargames businesses that are not registered for VAT. Of course, they could register for VAT, but that wouldn't change the overall cost of their figures now to EU customers. Selling a pack of figures for £3 with no VAT is no different from them registering for VAT and then having to sell a pack at £3.60 including VAT and then deducting the VAT for EU customers – about 60p of tax will happen on that pack somewhere! Registering for VAT, however, would put up prices for UK customers – and UK customers might argue unnecessarily so. :)

Offline Andrew Rae

  • Mad Scientist
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    • Statuesque Miniatures
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #184 on: February 05, 2021, 01:58:44 PM »
Andrew Rae (Statuesque Miniatures) probably knows more than I do about this. :)

 lol I doubt it, Ian! I'm just hovering up info trying to work out how to save my business. I didn't look into DDP much as my volume of packages isn't enough. Royal Mail are launching a DDP scheme soon though, but again, I can't use it.

Offline Ray Rivers

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5911
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #185 on: February 05, 2021, 02:12:08 PM »
I'm just hovering up info trying to work out how to save my business.

The current situation is a continuation of what has been probably one of the worse years of my life. As I have said before with over 40 years in the hobby, the majority of my purchases have come from the UK. My hobby keeps me sane and now this.

 :'(

Offline Fighting15s

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 226
    • Fighting 15s
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #186 on: February 05, 2021, 02:21:17 PM »
The current situation is a continuation of what has been probably one of the worse years of my life. As I have said before with over 40 years in the hobby, the majority of my purchases have come from the UK. My hobby keeps me sane and now this.

 :'(

February 2020 kicked it off with one storm blowing off my workshop roof, and the next storm filling the workshop with water. If I had known then that it would be the least of my troubles, I'd have laughed more at the time... Now, of course, with the new roof eventually in place and everything dry, whenever it rains I'm happy because the water isn't getting in. :)

Offline Fighting15s

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 226
    • Fighting 15s
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #187 on: February 05, 2021, 02:27:33 PM »
lol I doubt it, Ian! I'm just hovering up info trying to work out how to save my business. I didn't look into DDP much as my volume of packages isn't enough. Royal Mail are launching a DDP scheme soon though, but again, I can't use it.

I looked at DDP options. They're not viable for a small business, as it makes them vulnerable to open-ended charges at the say of the delivery company. Interested if you have a link for the Royal Mail one, if only so I can rule it out. :) International VAT collection is one of those things you'd hope could be integrated somehow one day with Click and Drop.

Offline Andrew Rae

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 701
    • Statuesque Miniatures
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #188 on: February 05, 2021, 02:43:43 PM »
I looked at DDP options. They're not viable for a small business, as it makes them vulnerable to open-ended charges at the say of the delivery company. Interested if you have a link for the Royal Mail one, if only so I can rule it out. :) International VAT collection is one of those things you'd hope could be integrated somehow one day with Click and Drop.

There you go: https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid

Offline WillieB

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1457
  • Gotcha!
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #189 on: February 05, 2021, 03:37:25 PM »
The worst one yet? Parcel ( padded envelope)  from Front Rank. Net worth £34 surcharge 37€ That's 101+ %! (Marcel)
Panic, Chaos and Disorder. My job here is done

Offline Mammoth miniatures

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 565
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #190 on: February 05, 2021, 03:46:51 PM »
Industria mechanika , makers of lovely resin model kits, have declared that they're not shipping to the UK for the foreseeable future in part due to this issue:
With PayPal now charging sellers to refund customers, I have (hopefully temporarily) removed the UK entirely from my list of countries to ship to rather than simply cancel/refund the under 135GBP valued orders which is just about every order anyway from there. I will not be a tax collector for the UK. The costs outweigh the benefits/small amount of sales from there. I've got enough headaches and crap to do tax-wise with the US. Not my circus. Not my monkeys. Not anymore.
And before someone gets mad at me about it, try to remember that I am not a UK citizen and have zero power there. That's on the UK citizens so if you're one of them, contact your representatives and yell at them instead of the victims of the intentional result of brexit xenopobia. Thank you.


Offline WillieB

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Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #191 on: February 05, 2021, 05:01:04 PM »
Next one. Victrix £42 surcharge 38,5 € ( Johan)
This is getting completely out of hand I'd say.
Surcharges in the first few weeks were between 39 and 52%. Now we've already had some going near AND over 100%

Offline Fighting15s

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 226
    • Fighting 15s
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #192 on: February 05, 2021, 05:11:07 PM »
There you go: https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid

Thanks. I looked at the charges and volume requirements. With a minimum spend of £5000 pa plus prices per parcel for the service of anything from £6.70 to £17.45 (£9.70 for Belgium, WillieB!), I assume on top of tracked and signed delivery in the initial iteration of the service, I think it's fair to say it's not viable for small businesses, nor for their EU customers. On the plus side, it is linked to Click and Drop.

I see it also hints that the IOSS system due in July will require the seller to use an intermediary, again making this route unviable. Still can't tell until more details are forthcoming.

Offline Fighting15s

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 226
    • Fighting 15s
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #193 on: February 05, 2021, 05:18:29 PM »
Next one. Victrix £42 surcharge 38,5 € ( Johan)
This is getting completely out of hand I'd say.
Surcharges in the first few weeks were between 39 and 52%. Now we've already had some going near AND over 100%

Hi Willie, They're shocking, but unless you can break down the charges into VAT, customs duty if any, and collection fee, and detail the delivery service used (mail or courier) and the TARIC declared on the customs form, they don't, unfortunately, allow sellers like me to understand why.

Both Front Rank and Victrix are VAT registered, so I assume VAT has been deducted in their carts and you have therefore paid it on import. You'll also pay VAT on the delivery charge on import. Before Brexit you'd have paid the VAT on the product and on delivery in the shopping cart. So what's key is how much is being charged by which delivery company to collect the tax and whether you are being charged extra duty.

The handling fee will always disproportionately affect the percentage for small orders (e.g. not much over 22 euros) compared with large orders.

Update: I just searched for and found bpost's handling fee: it's a massive 24 euros for any package under 150 euros, and 32 euros for any package over 150 euros. You are always going to get caned by your own country's handling fees for modest orders arriving by post. I'm surprised you buy anything in from outside the EU. :(
« Last Edit: February 05, 2021, 06:31:35 PM by Fighting15s »

Offline WillieB

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1457
  • Gotcha!
Re: Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): Lack of information from traders
« Reply #194 on: February 05, 2021, 06:43:31 PM »
Hi Willie, They're shocking, but unless you can break down the charges into VAT, customs duty if any, and collection fee, and detail the delivery service used (mail or courier) and the TARIC declared on the customs form, they don't, unfortunately, allow sellers like me to understand why.

Both Front Rank and Victrix are VAT registered, so I assume VAT has been deducted in their carts and you have therefore paid it on import. You'll also pay VAT on the delivery charge on import. Before Brexit you'd have paid the VAT on the product and on delivery in the shopping cart. So what's key is how much is being charged by which delivery company to collect the tax and whether you are being charged extra duty.

The handling fee will always disproportionately affect the percentage for small orders (e.g. not much over 22 euros) compared with large orders.

Update: I just searched for and found bpost's handling fee: it's a massive 24 euros for any package under 150 euros, and 32 euros for any package over 150 euros. You are always going to get caned by your own country's handling fees for modest orders arriving by post. I'm surprised you buy anything in from outside the EU. :(

Hi Nick,
yes, it's going from bad to horrible. Problem lies with the courier services and to a lesser degree customs who actually can now 'demand' any handling fee they want.
As you know we're already compiling a list of EU traders on another thread on this forum, as I'm I'm afraid orders from the UK will dry up completely. So sad....
Going to a British wargames show is also a bit of a dead end as the maximum allowed at Customs is 390€

 

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