Starting an ECW collection for the first time

[londoncalling]

@Robh
Could you briefly expand on your comment about actual deployment/sleeves. (As I have some hundreds OF Warlord figs awaiting basing etc 🙄)

Please ignore if this is thread hijack!

[robh]

@Robh
Could you briefly expand on your comment about actual deployment/sleeves. (As I have some hundreds OF Warlord figs awaiting basing etc )

Please ignore if this is thread hijack!

The "Regiment" was largely an administrative entity. The actual field formation for mixed pike/shot was the "Battalie".  In general (although it varied enormously) each Battalie was about 300 men in ratio of pike/musket appropriate for the era and actual force gathered.

You have to bear in mind that some regiments during the war were literally 30 or 40 men strong. (One event I did as part of Blackwell's Regiment, we had more re-enactors than the actual regiment had troops at the Battle and there were only 38 of us)
Such small regiments would therefore be lumped together to form a single Battalie so troops would be all mixed up into the standard shot-pike-shot deployment. Or could even be broken up sending shot to one Battalie and Pike to another.
Larger regiments would be split up to form multiple Battalie.
So while the core of pikes with a sleeve of shot on each flank is appropriate that is not a "Regiment", so you should not see one unit  in red coats, one in white, one in purple, one in green and one in blue all with perfectly matching standards forming a nice pretty line*.

Stuart Peachey's little "Mechanics of Infantry Combat" pamphlet from Stuart Press is a very good single volume introduction to how ECW battles were fought.

* Although it does always look impressive when done like that. It is the ECW version of always fielding Napoleonics in Parade Dress uniforms not greatcoats. Rule of Cool and all that!

[TheBlackCrane]

With no intent to take this thread off at a tangent, the recent 'Civil War Atlas' by Nick Lipscombe is superb; well well worth acquiring. My next project is going to be ECW in 15/18mm I think.

So while the core of pikes with a sleeve of shot on each flank is appropriate that is not a "Regiment", so you should not see one unit  in red coats, one in white, one in purple, one in green and one in blue all with perfectly matching standards forming a nice pretty line*.

Intriguing! Was not aware of that.

[Winston]

So...

that was all MASSIVELY helpful as expected everyone - thank you. Some extra queries.

-I did think, but was not certain, that Warlord are the only plastics ECW range - is that certain? Sounds like it?

-I am indeed talking 28mm. One day I might consider different scales. But I'm not 'over' 28mm yet even if it makes gaming/numbers sense. Call me a hopeless romantic!

-A fascinating selection of ranges and signposts to great-looking minis here. Cost (and associated speed/volume) is a big a factor. I note the mixed reviews of the Warlord plastics. I'd actually heard a mixed response to their ECW plastics before. A percentage of plastic will be absolutely essential though, for me to reach the aforementioned goals. So perhaps I'll go metal on key units as well as characters, and rely on the plastics for generic bulk/less important units only.

-Sabot bases will be the way - on 1ps. So I can start with Skirmish.

-First war will be my starting point - 1642-1646

[Friends of General Haig]

Hi Winston,

Yes, Warlord are the only people to do 28mm plastics.  Mixing some metals in with them is a great way to go. Most ranges will mix with them well.  Bicorne are a bit bigger than most other ranges so you might want to compare them yourself to see how you feel about the difference in size in the same unit.

(I’m also a hopeless 28mm ‘romantic’.  I’m sure I’ll get a smaller scale eventually  .)

You may be aware already, but in case not then you should bookmark http://bcw-project.org/ .  This is a great site with absolutely stacks of relevant info including things like uniform and flags (where anything is known!).   

I suggest you pick a campaign as the focus of the units you collect to add some character / narrative to your forces. You mention Edgehill and there is a great book from the Osprey Campaign series on this.  Many people go for the King’s ‘Oxford’ army and Parliament’s army commanded by the Earl of Essex as these include many of the famous ‘pin-up’ regiments such as the King’s Guard etc. 

Don’t worry about getting too fixed to one campaign with how you paint your units as we now very little for certain about uniforms, flags, etc. and there was probably a lot of irregularity to what the combatants wore.

[Radar]

Hi Winston

I think robh sums up the army unit nomenclature quite well. All these new words like regiment, troop, company starting to be used in the period - but they don't quite have the rigid definition that they now have.

The aside from the blackcrane: agreed, a beautiful book, a must have, but the more I read of it the more errors I see. Beautiful but flawed.

Some good advice from FoGH. I've gone for a fantasy football league type arrangement picking my units. All we can ever do is create a pastiche as there are so many unknowns (which at times is frustrating, at other times a blessing). If you are honing in on one particular part of the country for your units and battles there are some excellent books available - Waller's Southern Association (Pike and Shot Society); Hopton's Army (Helion); Brereton's Cheshire Parliamentarian army (Helion); Essex's (the seminal Old Robin's Foot from Partizan); Eastern Association (Pike & Shot Society); New Model Army (long out of print Firth & Davies). The big gaps seem to be the Royalist armies (although I believe Helion have a volume on the King's Oxford Army on their long list).

You say you are looking at the First Civil War as your initial starting point, within that period there are some significant differences. Please note: a very generalised broad brush approach to my comments here.

At the outbreak of war there seems to have been a 'grab what's around' approach to the formation of military units - some repurposing of old armour, helmets, some excitement in some quarters and some short lived units being issued coats (I'm thinking of Brooke's southern regiment in their purple coats). Quite a lot of older, heavier guns - so musket rests. A number of well equipped, experienced men who have fought in Europe. The first series of By The Sword Divided really does capture this feel of enthusiasm and improvisation.

The middle period where things seem to settle down a bit, more clothing seems to have been issued, lighter guns (without rests), armour seems to be being discarded leaving just essentials (think of the demise of the cuirassiers and the rise of the classic image of the harquebusier, pikeman wearing less and less armour).

Then the late period: Parliament is reorganising troops into the NMA; the Royalists are struggling to get arms (having to import much of their military supplies from Europe); dragoons are quite often being amalgamated into regiments of horse due to a shortage of horses (particularly on the Royalist side).

So plenty to go at. Some good sources of free online information around (BCW wiki is pretty good - if you discover something not mentioned on the wiki please add it! If you don't feel comfortable editing the wiki I'm sure Tim will happily add it if you email him, or I can do it for you).

A gentle warning: many of the coat colours tables that have been published either physically or on the web, share a number of errors. Check out the BCW wiki - evidence for any claimed colours is usually listed there. Then you can make up your own mind. Some random bloke might have compiled coat colour tables, citing references. He doesn't half go on at times  , particularly about the London Trained Bands. 

You can find them at https://www.keepyourpowderdry.co.uk/2020/05/coat-colours-part-1-parliamentarian.html which might just happen to be my blog.

[valleyboy]

I've just started up in ECW as well, I painted 3 Empress units last year having just been wowed by the figures
More recently I've just  finished but not based my first from 1st Corps
Any thoughts on 1st Corps?- again I looked at the figures and thought they looked superb

I've also bought figures from Warlord and Bicorne but as yet they have no paint

[Antonio J Carrasco]

I started an ECW army and then sold what I had, and now I am interested again in the subject after being subjected to the gorgeousness of Captain Blood's set ups!

My problem? That I like both small actions AND bigger battles, and that would force me to go for two different scales/sizes/bases.

Initially, I intend to start with the smaller actions. I tried Pikeman's Lament -in the context of the Wars of Religion- but it is not my cup of tea, so I must look for something else. My idea is something half-way between a big skirmish and small battle, maybe something Sharp Practice-style but for Pike and Shot. I haven't decided anything yet. For the moment I am painting Dragoons and Commanded Shot in individual bases and will move from there.

As for bigger battles I have the ideas somewhat clearer. For the rules I intend to use Twilight of the Divine Right. I have played the Louis XIV iteration and like them -even though I know they have their critics-. As for the models, probably will go for Steel Fist ECW miniatures. They are not cheap, but I will start small a then I will see where things go from there.

[SJWi]

I must admit, if I was starting ECW from scratch I would use the Steel Fist figures. Quiet expensive but they look head and shoulders about other 15mm ranges as regards quality.

[Elk101]

Another vote for any of the Nick Collier sculpted ranges, they are my personal favourites for the period. The Renegade figures used to be great value, but now go for silly money on Ebay. One of my gaming group has a load of Warlord plastics that he uses to bulk put his Renegade units. He keeps them at the back and removes them as casualties first. They look ok.

[mmcv]

For King and Parliament and Twilight of Divine Right are bith great rule sets for the period. They both work well with diorama basing too. I stupidly did my 10mm on multi based setups bit strongly considering rebasing them to smaller diorama style single bases.

Regardless, it's a great period to play and look forward to seeing what your do