Sooo... SPQR2.0 ??

[Mammoth miniatures]

Hard to do convincingly in a generic historical game which I think Warlord must have intended of SPQR even though they didn't do a very good job of explaining it.

Agreed- but the problem they left themselves is that they just assumed players would know what to do with the rules they were given. So they chucked romans, greeks, persians and a few others in the same book and went "eh, you figure it out" which might be par for the course in historicals, but still feels a tad lazy.

Personally I'd have gone a more "legends of the old west" direction - A slimmer core book with the main rules and factions for a popular time frame, say the roman conquest of gaul/britain/germania. then down the line you can publish small supplements - literally no more than 30 pages, with new army lists for different periods, a little historical primer, and a few extra scenarios/campaigns for that period.

That way you've set up the idea that it's fixed time period gaming, but you also give players the tools to mix up the historical reality as much as they want. this also overcomes the issue os trying to up game size to push sales - get your profit through the rules expansions, not by reboxing the same tired lump plastic romans. it keeps the game cost down for the player who can now buy only the minis they actually need and the books they want to play with, and it focuses the game more whilst providing a framework for consistent product support in the form of optional supplements.

(I know some people don't like the multi book format but i think if done well it's a good way to keep a game alive.)

I think the biggest issue for me is that warlord seem to make throwaway games. And if you're going to make a throwaway game, don't hype it up as a major new system and charge £20 for the book. Make it a pamphlet, make it cheap and it'll go down smoother if it dies.

[Ninefingers]

Saga have stolen their thunder on this, but setting it during the Punic Wars would have meant that you could have many different warbands - Roman, Italian Allies, Syracuse, Greek Mercenaries, Gauls, Numidians, Carthaginians, Balearics, Iberians - all duking it out.

[Easy E]

Yeah, Punic Wars is the best venue for a bridging narrative skirmish game in my mind.  Clash of Spears beat them there, so I guess early Imperial Roman could be a good place too?  Lot's of enemies there.   

[Szary]

Reading through all your ideas in this thread I can't but think "Wow, they just are trying to reinvent Clash of Spears!".

I don't know if there is a real idea behind this game (SPQR). Having read through some reviews and paging through a lent rulebook I saw a very flat, spiritless product. Say what you want about Bolt Action - for all enormous flaws it has an idea for itself, it's command system and Private Ryan special rules.

Meanwhile, there are Clash of Spears; Infamy, Infamy; Saga: AoH.

From all corpses on Warlords corpse pile, it's not the most enticing.

[Easy E]

I was thinking the same thing Szary!   

[Coenus Scaldingus]

Does make you wonder who the audience for V2.0 is?
Those unaware and just looking to pick up some rules would have bought the first edition. Those who have tried and disliked the first edition probably aren't too keen on spending more money so soon on giving a revised version another try. Those who tried and liked the first edition have limited reason to get a book that replaces their existing one either.
I'm sure WG will sell a few copies once they put some marketing behind the relaunch, but enough to warrant the new edition? If it's just a throwaway game system, why bother; if it's supposed to be a major game system for them, why not do a better job the first time around?

[Mammoth miniatures]

An update from warlord -
"Following the initial release of SPQR in 2019, we have been inundated with player feedback concerning the game mechanics. It is always important that we take into account the wisdom of practising wargamers and humbly recognise some of the issues raised by players in the SPQR community. We have this taken some of those suggestions and reworked and streamlined the game system to aleviate these issues, as well as rebalancing and tweaking unit point structures to promote overall balance.

Despite our goal of increased player enjoyment, we recognise that putting out a new edition so soon after the initial release could be a frustration to current SPQR players. We're therefore introducing a limited time redemption scheme to help both existing players and those who have yet to dip their toes into SPQR.

Until 24 March 2021, simply purchase one of the selected SPQR infantry box sets (there's a choice for each currrently available SPQR faction) from the Warlord Games webstore or any participating retailers, and you'll receive the revised edition rulebook completely free.

This offer is strictly limited to one per customer/household. All redemption scheme orders will be shipped at the closure of the redemption scheme period, on 24 March 2021."

I've gotta say that spending another £15 to the same tired plastic sprues warlord have been giving away free and get a replacement for the £20 rulebook I already bought doesn't exactly rekindle my enthusiasm for SPQR.

[SJWi]

I’m afraid I remain very sceptical of figure manufacturers who produce rules . If I look at my favourite rules....”To the Strongest”, Sharpe Practice, Battlegroup....they are either produced by dedicated rules companies or have their genesis there. In my experience too many poor sets of rules hide behind shiny models and background hype, and don’t stand scrutiny.

[Coenus Scaldingus]

Partway through that text, I thought it would be leading to a free PDF or somesuch, not a "buy something you may not want to get the rules for *free*". Not a big purchase required admittedly, but why not dare rely on the strength of the supposedly improved rules to sell you more miniatures, rather than sort of the opposite?

Could have provided more details on the improvements too - "We have this taken some of those suggestions and reworked and streamlined the game system to alleviate these issues, as well as rebalancing and tweaking unit point structures to promote overall balance." is about as vague and generic as it can be (while also incorrectly written, a promising start...).

Would love to hear how much really changed and improved, but not going to touch this myself any time soon.

[pixelgeek]

Partway through that text, I thought it would be leading to a free PDF or somesuch, not a "buy something you may not want to get the rules for *free*". Not a big purchase required admittedly, but why not dare rely on the strength of the supposedly improved rules to sell you more miniatures, rather than sort of the opposite?

Could be an accounting issue.

[Easy E]

Could be an accounting issue.

Yes, the issue is Accounting likes to count MORE money rather than less. 

Warlord has a more GW model where you get money on the books AND the models.   

[Andrew_McGuire]

I think I’ll wait for 3rd edition. It will probably be out around the time I get my first Covid jab, with the next revision possibly coinciding with the second.

[Mammoth miniatures]

I think I’ll wait for 3rd edition. It will probably be out around the time I get my first Covid jab, with the next revision possibly coinciding with the second.

This is the kind of highly period specific niche joke that anthropologists will fight over in decades to come.


I really can't summon any enthusiasm for buying sub par minis to get a possibly sup par set of rules.
Given that fact that you can't order from warlord without giving them an email address you'd think they could just send out a free PDF to anyone who ordered the book.

[pixelgeek]

My issue is that they shit the bed so badly with the first version that even if it is improved it still wouldn't be any good

[rumacara]

This thread is locked as for any other of this kind.
This is a wargames forum not a chat room.
We are all free to express a constructive opinion about the hobby but not free to be rude and do personal attacks.
This type of threads, language and behaviours arent tolerated here.