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Author Topic: 2nd Afghan War standards  (Read 696 times)

Offline jagergreen

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2nd Afghan War standards
« on: February 13, 2021, 12:30:01 AM »
Hello,
I know that there have been a couple of earlier threads devoted to this topic, but they are kind of old.

I am looking for a source for 28mm flags for the Bombay Grenadiers as well as any information/source on flags carried by the Afghan Army during this period.

I know that the Flag Dude used to make flags for this campaign but he is no longer taking orders so any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!

Offline Mad Guru

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2021, 06:44:36 AM »
There's only one contemporary image I know of showing a flag in use by soldiers of the Afghan Regular Army during the Second Afghan War.  It shows an Afghan regular cavalryman with a flag mounted on a pole strapped to his back, in similar fashion to the way Samurai flew Sashimono banners on their backs, as seen here:



Here's a link to an article I posted this past Summer on the subject of Afghan Military Flags, mostly focused on the 19th Century:

https://maiwandday.com/2020/07/27/afghan-military-flags/

Unfortunately it has very little info on Afghan Regular Army flags other than the pic above, but it includes a good amount of information on Afghan tribal flags, and also national flags, and displays all the illustrations I've been able to collect of 19th Century Afghan flags over the past 20 years or so, which is not all that many, but still better than none.

RE: the 1st Bombay Grenadiers, here's a photo of the flags the Flag Dude made for me specifically for that regiment, a little over 10 years ago:



I'm not sure how recently you tried to order from him but I know he attended Cold Wars last year as a dealer, and I believe he is back in business, at least for phone orders as opposed to his website.  I know in the past it's often been difficult to leave messages on his voicemail system, and contacting him sometimes takes multiple attempts until he happens to be available to pick up and speak with you directly.  Obviously not every prospective customer will want to deal with such circumstances, but I mention it to you on the off-chance you may want to give it a try.

Barring that, it's a question of how detail-oriented you are regarding your regimental flags, as a set of Queen's and Regimental Colours for any British Infantry regiment with WHITE facings from the Crimean or if need be even the Napoleonic Wars could do in a pinch, but if someone took a close look the regimental number and battle honors would obviously be inaccurate.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 06:47:45 AM by Mad Guru »
"We shall see what wisdom lies beneath my madness!"

Offline Mad Guru

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2021, 08:01:06 PM »
Adding this as a separate comment so anyone revisiting this thread won't miss the new info below...

I just learned of another source for regimental colours for Indian native units in British service.  Unfortunately it doesn't include flags for the 1st Bombay Grenadiers, but it does include a variety of other regiments.  There are sets of flags for the Sikhs Wars and the Maratha Wars, and I think they could be pressed into service for use in the Second Afghan War.  They're available from Patrick Wilson at The Virtual Armchair General in the US.

Here's a LINK to the page with the Sikh Wars sets...

http://www.thevirtualarmchairgeneral.com/348-st33sikh.html

...and a LINK to the page with the Maratha Wars sets:

http://www.thevirtualarmchairgeneral.com/351-Maratha%20Wars%20Flags.htm

Many thanks to RogerC for telling me of this source for the impressive looking flags he's using for his awesome Sikh Wars project, currently on view here at LAF!

Offline Ranthony

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2021, 08:16:02 PM »
Hope these help


Offline Ranthony

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2021, 08:16:59 PM »
First pic is for the 2nd, the next reply....crossed flags is for the 1st.

I'll see if anyone makes them and get back to you.

Offline Plynkes

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2021, 09:45:10 PM »
That first one looks way too modern to me. I don't buy that as a design in use during the 2nd Afghan war. If I had to guess I would say it was post-independence.



With Cat-Like Tread
Upon our prey we steal...

Offline Ranthony

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2021, 04:38:50 AM »
Perhaps you're right Plynkes, I added it as it shares the flaming grenade that they wore and the unfurling ribbon scrolls do have the flavour of the period.

In any event, if it's not entirely accurate, it is their flag now and so does offer artistic licence, should the search ultimately bear no fruit.

Offline Ranthony

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2021, 05:23:14 AM »
A good look at the flags of Afghanistan here.
This flag gets a mention and it's suggested that it may have been generic across the army....

https://iranicaonline.org/articles/flags-ii


Offline Ranthony

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2021, 06:28:56 AM »
Dug around a little more, the tricolour is definitely of the grenadiers.
I agree though, it does look out of place somewhat.


Offline Plynkes

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2021, 08:42:29 AM »
Nice find. Notice the one in the newer pic is a horizontal tricolour rather then the vertical one of the first picture. I'm guessing that the first one you posted is the modern version of an older flag. I am a bit out of my area when it comes to the Indian Army, mind. Honestly don't know if they would have had the Hindi characters on their flag back in the day. Keep digging! :)




Offline jagergreen

  • Student
  • Posts: 11
Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2021, 03:23:52 AM »
Thank you all for your input. Very helpful.
In the end, I was able to find some appropriate colors through a private seller.
I truly like the gentlemanly demeanor displayed here.
I don't know if we are allowed to talk about other forums, but I have to say I had originally posted this question on another very old gaming forum that I have been a member of for many years and all I got for my trouble was a surprising amount of abuse and references to "go and Google it."
That was it, I canceled my membership and now only frequent these hallowed halls and good riddance. End of rant.
Thanks again. :-)

Offline Plynkes

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Re: 2nd Afghan War standards
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2021, 09:32:39 AM »
Thanks for keeping it gentlemanly yourself, jagergreen, by not mentioning the forum in question. We do discourage moaning about other fora by name, as we don't want to get into the business of forum wars. People in the past have tried to use LAF as a secure base from which to perform guerilla attacks over the border at whichever forum they are exiled from (like it was some sort of MK camp in Angola or Zambia :)), and we don't really see that as our purpose. But as you have (hopefully) got it out of your system with a little rant that named no names I think no harm has been done. 



Ah, the always-helpful 'Google it.' Thank you so much. Until you so kindly brought it up, I had no idea such a thing as search engines existed. Far better for me to do that on my own than actually engage with a community and benefit from the knowledge of its members. Why would I want to do that?  ;)





 

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