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Author Topic: Command staff in a roman centuria  (Read 1939 times)

Offline Samsonov

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Command staff in a roman centuria
« on: March 07, 2021, 11:51:24 AM »
I want to model an Early Imperial Roman Centuria in 1-1 in 3mm (they fit on a 4cm by 2cm base). From what I can establish a roman Centuria consisted of 80 legionaries and 20 slaves. These were divided into 10 Contubernia of eight legionaries and 2 slaves. All this changed over time but seems to have been the most common approach.

However, a Centuria also had one Centurion, one Optio, one Signifer and one Buccinator. I cannot establish if those four command staff were part of the 80 individuals in the Centuria or if they were in excess of them. So if I wanted to model a Centuria in 3mm would I need 80 individual models or 84? Is there historical evidence for this or is it unknown?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2021, 02:33:37 PM by Samsonov »

Offline mr ed

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Re: Command staff in a roman centuria
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2021, 07:32:16 AM »
There's also the Tesserarius for each century.

If you're going for full realism then it doesn't matter too much anyway. 80 is the paper strength. Between sick, leave and just being generally a few (or often many) short on numbers it's likely centuries were very rarely 80 men.

I don't think there's any real evidence for the two slaves per contubernium idea, that's just internet OCD  trying to make 80 = 100. 

Offline dadlamassu

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Re: Command staff in a roman centuria
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2021, 08:17:41 AM »
My reading has found that surviving sources for the basic organisation of the component parts of a Roman Legion are scarce, vague and sometimes contradictory. 
The Century probably had a theoretical strength of 80 soldiers, the Centurion, was probably additional, the Optio, Signifer, Cornicen/Tubicen, Tesserarious may or may not have been.  That said a proportion of the soldiers were also "immunes" who held other skills and may have been detached temporarily or permanent basis -(specialists who are excused guard and other duties) e.g. Veterinarians to look after animals, Builders, pioneers, artillerymen, masons, carpenters, glass workers, tilers, medical orderlies, and others. 
 
Whether there were 2 slaves, servants or whatever to make up the Century to 100 is not at all clear. 

There are many unanswered questions about the Legions as many of the authors were not military men, were writing long after the events and use various terminologies for the same thing or use a term and do not define it.  After all they were not writing for wargamers!
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.'
-- Xenophon, The Anabasis

Offline mr ed

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Re: Command staff in a roman centuria
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2021, 11:19:25 AM »
After all they were not writing for wargamers!

Are you sure? Armchair experts writing centuries after the events they describe with a personal point of view to push, a hero crush and an often slapdash approach to their sources. Sounds like a fair bit of the corpus of writing for wargamers...

Offline cadbren

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Re: Command staff in a roman centuria
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2021, 08:25:50 PM »
Given the Roman attitude to slaves I don't see them being counted as part of a military unit, similar to how they didn't count allies and auxiliaries in earlier times, only the citizens in arms.

The optio was at the back, if a line was around eight deep then that would suggest each contubernium (squad) made up a file so a century would have a frontage of ten men. During the battle of Pharsalus between Caesar and Pompey it's mentioned that Pompey had extra deep lines of ten and Caesar had made his lines shallower at six men to enable him to stretch his frontage more. It seems eight was therefore the normal depth.

If the centurion is at the front but in line with his troops then someone is displaced at the back to stand with the optio perhaps. The horn would likely be a couple of ranks back or at the back to avoid weakening the line. The standard is anyone's guess and the tesserarius might not have been a separate role, he acted as a watch commander in camp so could have been a senior soldier and been part of a regular squad.

Offline dadlamassu

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Re: Command staff in a roman centuria
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2021, 08:42:19 AM »
Given the Roman attitude to slaves I don't see them being counted as part of a military unit, ....

If the centurion is at the front but in line with his troops then someone is displaced at the back to stand with the optio perhaps. The horn would likely be a couple of ranks back or at the back to avoid weakening the line. The standard is anyone's guess and the tesserarius might not have been a separate role, he acted as a watch commander in camp so could have been a senior soldier and been part of a regular squad.

I agree with much of this.  Though the "displacement" of a soldier because the Centurion is in the front rank would only occur if the unlikely event that the Century was at 100% fighting strength (what we call "bayonet" or "sabre" strength now).  In my 41 years in the army my unit was never at 100% strength!  Soldiers were already detached to man artillery (Ballistarii), treat wounded (Capsarii, Medicus Legionis) and many other roles.  So let's not get too wound up on the figure of 80 men per Century in the battle line.

I think it unlikely that a legion would have 20% or more of its strength as potentially unreliable slaves.   If they did exist then they may have been the frequently mentioned antisignani or Legionary Light Infantry though equally both these could well be Legionaries detailed off for that duty - perhaps younger/fitter soldiers practiced in the use of sling, bow or javelin?  Who then retuned to the battle line.  You know the chaps, wet behind the ears, who are sent for "a long stand", or a "left handed screw driver" by his more experienced comrades.

The Tesserarius was a soldier whose responsibilities included that of guard commander.  So either a special role or an appointment held in rotation by the senior soldiers in charge of each contubernium perhaps?  This would be similar to what happens in a modern unit.

The signifer, given his responsibilities for communicating the orders given by the Centurion, I see being not far from him.  Perhaps immediately to his rear along with the Cornicen who also transmitted orders?  This is borne out by the signifer casualty rate being about that of the Centurions (always assuming that the surviving sources reflect the norm).  Since the traditional place for the Centurion was front right then I see signifer being right behind him.  It is mentioned (by Caesar) that Pompey drew up  his troops deeply in 10 ranks while he reduced depth to 6 ranks to extend frontage.  From  this the implication is that the "normal" depth was 8 ranks so a frontage of 8-13 for a Century. 

So how should our centuries be deployed? Probably rectangular blocks with 6 of them in line to make up a cohort.

No matter what, the probable answer to most questions about the detail of the Roman army is at best an educated opinion and at worst conjecture.   So all I have written falls somewhere between these two!

Offline Samsonov

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Re: Command staff in a roman centuria
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2021, 09:32:48 AM »
Thanks for all the helpful advice. So this is where I am up to (bases have only been undercoated so far). One Centuria of Auxiliaries, plus cavalry, slingers and scorpions:



80 Auxilaries, with the Centurian in the front right, and the Optio at the back. The Signifer and Buccinator are to the right of the Centurian but I'll move them behind the Centurian on the next base, as Cadbren suggests. Alas, dadlamassu suggests that they would have been deployed on their short edge but I will be deploying them on their long edge for compatibility with various rulesets.

Also, I cannot take good pictures of 3mm models, no matter the manufacturer! They look a lot better in the flesh.

Offline vodkafan

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Re: Command staff in a roman centuria
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2021, 10:17:44 AM »
A Legion in a lunchbox! Looking good so far.
I am going to build a wargames army, a big beautiful wargames army, and Mexico is going to pay for it.

2019 Painting Challenge :
figures bought: 500+
figures painted: 57
9 vehicles painted
4 terrain pieces scratchbuilt

Offline dadlamassu

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Re: Command staff in a roman centuria
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2021, 10:35:02 AM »
Looks very good to me.  Well done!  I  think your positioning of the signifer and buccinator are fine until the enemy get close.  They would then probably drop back one rank as the legionaries hurled pila. 

The signifers in particular stayed very near the front rank and must have often been in it given their casualty rate.  There are stories of them hurling the signum into the enemy when things got desperate to encourage the troops to fight harder to rescue it.

The Buccinator needs two hands to sound it so I see him in the second rank one space to the left of the Centurion in battle.  Or he drops it once battle is joined though he might have to pay for it if it is lost!   

 

Offline cadbren

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Re: Command staff in a roman centuria
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2021, 08:09:52 AM »

The signifer, given his responsibilities for communicating the orders given by the Centurion, I see being not far from him.  Perhaps immediately to his rear along with the Cornicen who also transmitted orders? 

I thought that too but then wondered if a soldier without a shield would weaken the line. It's hard to work out the practicalities when it's unknown how the Roman line actually fought. The signifer is the standard bearer, he doesn't relay orders, so doesn't have to be near the Centurion but then as the standard bearer he should be near the front so the troops can see the standard and get a morale boost. I didn't know about the casualty rate which lends support to them being up front somewhere.

I had the same problem for the horn, he relays orders so should be near the Centurion but then again is he a liability to the front line? Perhaps so, perhaps that's why the signifer and Centurion had such high casualty rates, one due to lack of shield and one due to having to do much more fighting as a result of two practically non-combatants behind him needing protecting and able to offer minimal support themselves. While both will be high visibility targets it doesn't stand in a compressed hand to hand combat that enemies have the ability to aim for such targets when they're occupied fighting those directly in front of them.

The horn could be further back with instructions relayed by the troops behind the Centurion but it's just another guess.


 

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