Author Topic: Making Water (Read 18428 times)

warrenss2 · « **on:** September 09, 2009, 04:15:57 PM »

No, No, no... Not THAT kind of making water! No peeing jokes, please!

I need suggestions on methods of making pools of stagnant water for a swamp type terrain.

Westfalia Chris · « **Reply #1 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:24:59 PM »

Quote from: warrenss2 on September 09, 2009, 04:15:57 PM

I need suggestions on methods of making pools of stagnant water for a swamp type terrain.

The simplest method, technically, is getting a smooth surface (like plasticard), then paint it various shades of greens, blueish greens and browns. After this has dried, apply numerous layers of gloss varnish, letting each layer dry before the next coat.

Alternatively, you can use those "artificial waters" (I gather those are resins) offered by railroad modelling suppliers. Those, however, require quite some care and experience to get them right, so I´d suggest the varnish method (which worked fine for me on several occasions) for a "beginner" (no offense!).

Aaron · « **Reply #2 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:43:15 PM »

I have seen it done very convincingly with simple white glue over a painted surface also.

Westfalia Chris · « **Reply #3 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:49:06 PM »

Quote from: Aaron on September 09, 2009, 04:43:15 PM

I have seen it done very convincingly with simple white glue over a painted surface also.

This works well, too, provided that

a) you´ve got a brand of PVA glue that dries up clear
b) you apply it in a dust-free environment, because dust that gets caught in the glue can cause it to dry up opaque.

Using clear liquid paper glue (not PVA) probably works out better, but you have to look out for the many bubbles.

I prefer the varnish method, but I admit it´s rather time-consuming.

Dolmot · « **Reply #4 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:52:41 PM »

Whatever material you choose, be very careful with warping. There are only a few special products, which don't shrink at all. Others usually do - varnishes, gels, glue, anything. Porous building materials make the problem even worse. I recommend a sealed pool bottom, whereafter you add thin layers with plenty of drying time inbetween. Try to apply some sort of support/weight/press to keep the subject flat while drying. I've seen many impressive projects completely ruined by warping and shrinkage.

Personally, I'm not a fan of glues. They shink a lot, pull towards the edges and get cloudy over time. Varnish for "surface only" effects, proper water gel for deep pools and waves. That's my preference, but keep browsing around. Other solutions may work for you.

Svennn · « **Reply #5 on:** September 09, 2009, 04:52:46 PM »

A thicker polyurethane varnish such as Yacht varnish is quicker and to me better than an ordinary gloss varnish.

All suggestions so far I have used and do work, the railway model water is very expensive though.

Captain Blood · « **Reply #6 on:** September 09, 2009, 06:19:09 PM »

I use Woodland Scenics 'realistic water' - you just pour it on.
It's not cheap, and it's slightly tricky yo use, but generally speaking gives a pretty good effect very easily, especially for ponds and standing pools (as opposed to rivers, which can be a bit more tricky... )

OSHIROmodels · « **Reply #7 on:** September 09, 2009, 06:19:59 PM »

Below is a link to my website show a bridge diorama using a water gel that you heat up and pour into place. The problem being is the slight raising at the edges where the mould box was. It does show finger prints and collects dust but is effective as you can colour it with inks etc.

http://www.oshiromodelterrain.co.uk/jp/japanese.html

cheers

James

blackstone · « **Reply #8 on:** September 09, 2009, 07:50:23 PM »

If you're going for a swampy stagnant feel I'd go with Westfalia Chris. I've used this method and it looks great. If you paint the "swamp" area light towards the edges and darker toward the middle you can get a very strong illusion of depthand if you use a water based gloss varnish you can mix in small amounts of green and yellow and create a glazed effect. I'd only use the expensive Railway Water or resin for clear water.

Quote

I recently did these sections of marsh for my F&IW forest board.

They look great btw.

warrenss2 · « **Reply #9 on:** September 09, 2009, 11:27:57 PM »

The simplest method, technically, is getting a smooth surface (like plasticard), then paint it various shades of greens, blueish greens and browns. After this has dried, apply numerous layers of gloss varnish, letting each layer dry before the next coat.

If I did this method could I apply paint between the layers of varnish? Would that make a slight sense of depth?

Silent Invader, your post about your forestry board is what has inspired me to get busy on my swamp/forest terrain. I had my trees individually mounted but am changing that to 2 to 3 trees per CD base. I love the plants and the way your water looks but I want bigger pools.

Malebolgia · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2009, 01:43:14 PM »

I'm a big fan of 2-epoxy glue (the clear version). It dries rockhard, doesn't warp or shrink and stays clear all the way. Best stuff I have used for bases.You can easily tint it with inks.
Here's a picture of my Gatormen with their bases:

http://paintoholic.nl/images/gatormen.jpg
(don't mind the dust

. I learnt that you don't want to apply the stuff too thickly as it really doesn't shrink).

My Deep Ones:
http://paintoholic.nl/images/deepones1.jpg
http://paintoholic.nl/images/deepones2.jpg
http://leadadventureforum.com/gallery/3/577_07_06_09_7_16_24_3.jpg

Woodland Scenics Realistic Water is probably the biggest load of crap I ever bought. A huge bottle of supershrinking muck. I hate it big time. The stuff shrinks so much it looks silly. It clings on side surfaces and tends to 'crawl upwards' and then shrink all the way down. This gives supercrappy results for deeper water. In addition, the stuff doesn't dry hard and stays relatively soft. Nope, I will never use the crap again.
Here's one base done with 3 layers of Realistic Water. I poured it all the way to the top...see what I mean?
http://paintoholic.nl/images/wyrdzombie.jpg

marko.oja · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2009, 02:07:19 PM »

A further problem I've had with Realistic water is that you can't use even a gloss spray on top of it, you get a sort of "misty" finish with that. Only place where I found it useful was when I painted up a GW demo table, and poured it into grenade-shellholes (or what ever they were supposed to be). Looked fine there, didn't matter that much when it shrunk..

I'd go with a varnish. Would floor polish work, btw? Should be cheaper than varnish anyway? Anyone?

Marko

Traveler Man · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2009, 07:14:16 PM »

I've heard good reports of Envirotex Lite epoxy varnish for use in water effects. From the examples I've seen even deep pools and fountains can be created without any shrinkage. As for Woodland Scenics water effect, my advice is - don't touch it! Even if - somehow - it doesn't shrink, it will turn yellow over time. What begins as a clear pool will soon turn into a puddle of p!&$

Captain Blood · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2009, 09:18:06 PM »

Well - must say I'm surprised by the hostility towards Realistic Water!

I agree it's prone to shrink slightly as it dries - but once you understand its properties its not too hard to work with.

That said, I notice they've just launched a 'new, improved recipe' - so clearly WS acknowledge it wasn't a perfect product.

But I've tried varnish before and that shrinks too, so does PVA... So...

I don't think any of my water features made using WS Realistic Water has discoloured - but as I tend to use it in a fairly thin layer over a grungily painted base colour, I guess I wouldn't notice even if it did.

I'm about to paint and then 'waterify' about six feet of river - so keep the advice coming. If anyone has a foolproof product, let's hear about it

I've taken the liberty of attaching a few pics of some of the things I've used Realistic Water on. See what you think.