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Author Topic: Stargrave - too random?  (Read 1935 times)

Offline Von Trinkenessen

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 290
Re: Stargrave - too random?
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2021, 10:21:03 AM »
interesting to hear that Rich, as one of the external playtesters (Page1) for SG2.
Played too much beta and when released pushed it up to company level (oh the insanity)to the max.



Offline Chief Lackey Rich

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Stargrave - too random?
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2021, 12:20:15 PM »
interesting to hear that Rich, as one of the external playtesters (Page1) for SG2.
Played too much beta and when released pushed it up to company level (oh the insanity)to the max.

I prefer SG2 around the "reinforced platoon" level, but I've done company battles in years past.  It is a bit much unless you've got multiple experienced players on each side.  The fact that it also scales down into the "handful of fireteams and loners" level of FMA games is one of the reasons I like the rules so much.

Had great hopes for Tomorrow's War inheriting the SG2 mantle (certainly seemed to have Jon's approval) but that rulebook needed more editing and people seem to have largely forgotten about AAG's games these days.

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4396
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: Stargrave - too random?
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2021, 01:04:29 PM »
Check out this baby - dice probability calculator! https://www.omnicalculator.com/statistics/dice

According to this, if you had to score at least 5, 10, 15 or more, say, your chances would be -

For a single D20, 80%, 55%, 30%

For 2D10, 94%, 64%, 21%

For 3d6, 98%, 62.5%, 9%

From those, even without a funky graphic, you can see the 'bell curve' whereby the more dice you add, the more the odds stack in the middle range of numbers, minimising the chance of extreme scores, high or low. If you want more 'average' scores to crop up more often, you add more dice.

PS. Yes I am bored, reduced to extreme sloth by the heat.
'Sir John ejaculated explosively, sitting up in his chair.' ... 'The Black Gang'.

Paul Cubbin Miniature Painter

Offline Chief Lackey Rich

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Stargrave - too random?
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2021, 02:38:17 PM »
From those, even without a funky graphic, you can see the 'bell curve' whereby the more dice you add, the more the odds stack in the middle range of numbers, minimising the chance of extreme scores, high or low. If you want more 'average' scores to crop up more often, you add more dice.

Which is part of why various attempts to use multiple dice don't work out well in the XGrave games.  The more you clump average results on your bell curve the more ties you'll get, and ties result in both fighters in a melee taking damage.  That's less of a factor with shooting (which dominates in Stargrave) but still matters when brawls do happen. 

Moreover, you shift the average damage toward the midpoint of your potential results, which is only 11+attack bonus-Armor.  It takes forever to kill or even seriously wound anyone with that kind of damage output, making far more of your attacks have no real impact.  Game would slow to a crawl and your ability to threaten to (say) drop a loot hauler as they run for the table edge would go down quite a lot.

Offline Cubs

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4396
  • "I simply cannot survive without beauty ..."
Re: Stargrave - too random?
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2021, 03:24:04 PM »
I always enjoyed the % rolls, made on 2D10 (or 2D20) with a designated 'tens' die and a 'units' die. The odds of making a roll were right there in front of you, with no fuss (although critical fumbles happened waaay too much - does the best swordsman in the world really drop their weapon or sever a limb one in every hundred times?)

Offline Easy E

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1046
  • Just some guy who does stuff
    • Blood and Spectacles
Re: Stargrave - too random?
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2021, 03:58:52 PM »
It is more an issue that a +1 means almost nothing, so why bother maneuvering to try and gain the advantage of a +1 (all the way to +3).  Just roll and fish for Crits instead.

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Offline Grumpy Gnome

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2764
    • The Grumpy Gnome
Re: Stargrave - too random?
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2021, 04:31:49 PM »
Rolling and fishing for a crit rather than using fire and maneuver sounds like a problem that would bother me.
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Offline Chief Lackey Rich

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1266
Re: Stargrave - too random?
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2021, 05:10:09 PM »
It is more an issue that a +1 means almost nothing, so why bother maneuvering to try and gain the advantage of a +1 (all the way to +3).  Just roll and fish for Crits instead.

Because a +1 means you have a 5% better chance to hit and do +1 damage when you do hit.  That ain't hay, and you'll still have the same chance at a crit whether you move or hunker down, so why not maneuver if all you wanted to do is crit fish?

It sounds like what you're trying to say is that it's not worth taking the -1 for moving before you shoot if all it will do is avoid one of the -1 mods for intervening figures/terrain, and yeah, that's true - but there are other reasons to maneuver, mostly to position yourself in better cover, chase after loot or intercept a loot hauler, or set up for an advantageous melee in later turns.  Stargrave also adds in grenades and flamethrowers, so there's a lot more AoE threat than the other games had and staying spaced out while still playing for loot is important too.

Online Bloggard

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2495
Re: Stargrave - too random?
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2021, 06:17:35 PM »
For me I like the swing of the D20 system.  We play for fun and since I tend to roll very hot and very cold so my games are usually up and down.  Our games tend to tell a story and are always enjoyable.  My two cents.

abso-bloody-lutely. Unpredictable narrative on a plate. Never ceases to amaze me how few people seem to want this as part of their games!

 

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