*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
May 16, 2022, 03:42:51 PM

Login with username, password and session length

Donate

We Appreciate Your Support

Recent

Author Topic: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted  (Read 1801 times)

Offline Mark Plant

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 501
    • Pygmy Wars : Russian Civil War and Related Stuff
Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« on: July 16, 2021, 04:11:21 AM »
So after a lot of faffing around, I have pygymwars.com up and running at the normal address. While at it, I restructured it, which means a whole heap of links needed altering. I would appreciate any mistakes, especially wrong links, or suggestions being forwarded my way = pygmywarsATgmailDOTcom.

The reason for the restructure is that I've added a new: Red Army section that might interest some here. There's not much directly back of beyond other than some order of battle detail for the Soviets facing the Basmachis in Ferghana.

I also updated my page on rules at Rule Sets. If I have left out your favourites, or if you would like to a add a brief explanation to how they play, I'm happy to oblige.

Lastly, for those that read Russian, I would appreciate it if you could check my spelling and grammar at the : Red Flags page and the attached pdf with text.

Offline Mike Blake

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 320
  • Size Does Matter! - 54mm - The One True Scale
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2021, 09:33:46 AM »
Excellent news! Thanks for the hard work
Size Does Matter! - 54mm - The One True Scale

Offline trev

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 392
    • The Bits Box
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2021, 11:05:39 AM »
Wow!  :o  Loads of great new content Mark.  Excellent work.

I found the new stuff here by following your LAF web site link
https://www.pygmywars.com/

Google took me here, which appears to be different
http://pygmy-wars.50megs.com/home.html

I've been doing a bit of reading of the Red Army section this morning and I think it's good stuff.   I liked the Worker Units page especially as my understanding of them was particularly poor.  Some of the data will be disappointing to some, as it doesn't conform to many myths and prejudices, but it's better to know the reality. Even if we later ignore it for our beloved cliche and sterotype on the table.

I didn't find any broken links in the pages I have read.  There were a very few minor typos but I could tell what you meant.  The only one that leaps to mind as confusing me was this line from the Commissar page.
https://www.pygmywars.com/rcw/red_army/commanders/commissars.html
Quote
Political workers were there to ensure that the men were educated in Bolshevik theory and practice recruit members to the Party and generally keep spirits high.

I think it's only a comma missing after the word "practice" but it took me a couple of reads to understand the meaning.  Maybe just me being thick as I can't unsee it making sense now.  o_o

Anyway, great additions, so thanks for all your effort.

PS I found a second hand copy of your Odessa book, which is also great.  So consider me even more of a fan boy now.   :D

PPS I found one more typo
https://www.pygmywars.com/rcw/red_army/artillery/red_artillery.html
Quote
The was artillery was used in the civil war helped, because the technical demands were not high and so did not require long courses.

The type of artillery that was used...?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 11:32:00 AM by trev »

Offline Mark Plant

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 501
    • Pygmy Wars : Russian Civil War and Related Stuff
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2021, 08:24:05 PM »
Thanks Trev. Because my focus was on getting the content as accurate as I could, I ran out of energy to properly proof read it.

Google links by sites rather than names, and my old site is still up even though not linked to "pygmywars.com", so I suppose I am going to have to find out how to tell them I have moved across.

Offline trev

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 392
    • The Bits Box
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2021, 02:58:17 PM »
No criticism intended.  There were very few errors and the detail was great. 


Offline Ignatieff

  • Moderator
  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2604
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2021, 07:56:22 AM »
Wow, fabulous work Mark.  This is such a good site.  Thanks for all the huge effort that has gone into this.
"...and as always, we are dealing with strange forces far beyond our comprehension...."

All limitations are self imposed.  Work hard and dream big.

Offline Sparrow

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1192
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2021, 07:22:04 PM »
A brilliant resource - thank you so much!
Put your trust in God and keep your powder dry!

Offline cuprum

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2330
  • The Orient - is a tricky!
    • Studio "Siberia"
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2021, 01:56:54 AM »
Just now I saw this topic.

The abundance of banners (as well as other colorful paraphernalia on the uniform) is explained by the fact that the enemy troops often had almost the same uniform. Therefore, the question of identifying their own and foreign units on the battlefield was very acute.

The banners of the anarchists in the ranks of the Red Army are quite acceptable. In 1918, there were many such units in its composition on all fronts. On the Eastern Front, even many aircraft in the Red Army carried the black stars of the anarchists as their insignia. Only by 1919 were the anarchists either "repainted" into ordinary Soviet units, or expelled from the ranks of the Red Army, in which the "old-regime" discipline was introduced, which the anarchists did not accept. However, in this case, they could also wage a joint war with the Reds against the White Guards, but already as allies.

Many banners sorely lack exclamation marks where slogans are used.


28 mm

On the banner of naval cadets, the black inscription is not complete - the name of the military unit or school is missing. Or, if this is not provided, the inscription must be changed as follows (name of the educational institution):



15 mm

The inscription (in gold) on the very first image appears to have been translated into Serbian. In Russian it should be:
The banner of the headquarters of the cavalry regiment - one extra letter.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 02:10:15 AM by cuprum »

Offline Mark Plant

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 501
    • Pygmy Wars : Russian Civil War and Related Stuff
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2021, 03:02:23 AM »
Thank-you ever so much Cuprum!   (Note, exclamation mark!)

I shall make the changes.

I'm not sure that it is just about recognising the enemy though. I think it is a very Russian thing, this wanting banners and flags all the time. Units had them where the banner would never have been seen by the enemy, such as armoured car units.

Offline cuprum

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2330
  • The Orient - is a tricky!
    • Studio "Siberia"
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2021, 03:30:41 AM »
The Russians have no particular craving for the banners)))
This is not the reason.
First: the Red Army was created initially on a volunteer basis from various irregular volunteer detachments of various sizes. Each newly created volunteer unit strove to have its own banner. Hence the banners of companies and battalions - these spontaneously created companies and battalions were then poured into the structure of the regular units being created, but retained their old banners, as a sign of the volunteer units. In the regular units, formed by conscription, there were usually no such banners.
Secondly: in the Red Army up to the Second World War there was a tradition of gift banners from the "patronage of a military unit". Many factories, enterprises, trade unions or other organizations took patronage over any military unit (they provided assistance in supply, sent recruits from their ranks, etc.). These "patronage", on their own initiative, made a banner for "their" military unit and presented it. Quite often, such a banner became a real battle banner of a military unit. But, in general, these were not combat, "gift" banners. By the way, they are the main part of the enemy's trophies in the Soviet-Polish and in the Second World War, since these banners were not considered a "shrine" and were not preserved in any special way. And there could be several such banners in a military unit.
Thirdly: each military unit (a separate battalion and above) had to have a battle banner. Including every armored train or armored detachment. But, naturally, in such units, the banners were used only for ceremonies.

Offline Mark Plant

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 501
    • Pygmy Wars : Russian Civil War and Related Stuff
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2021, 04:12:32 AM »
I wonder if being Russian, you don't realise how the Russians love flags more than others.

Other countries don't go round putting their leaders on flags like this:

Anyhow, a question: the Poles captured a number of banners that were just slogans, rather than unit banners. I've seen references to Red units attacking with a number of large banners. But not being treasured, they didn't get kept. Do you know how common it was for units to have flags with just slogans on?

Offline cuprum

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2330
  • The Orient - is a tricky!
    • Studio "Siberia"
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2021, 05:10:38 AM »
Try to find another similar image on the flags - I think it will not be easy))) In more than 50 years of my life in Russia, I have never seen anything like it.
Judging by the colors of this flag (St. George's ribbon), it was used during the events of 2014 in Ukraine, Crimea or Novorossia (unrecognized republics).

The period of the Civil War in Russia is a period of constant rallies by the Bolsheviks. I think that in the political department of each military unit a large amount of the corresponding requisite for such "political work" was kept. Large heaps of various slogans, images and other things, made on fabric and what an unknowing person can take for military flags.

I already wrote that in each military unit there could be several different banners, but only one of them was "official". But this did not prevent the use of all of them during hostilities. Here everything depended on the desires of a particular commander.

Banners of the 27th Infantry Division. These are not regimental banners - these banners belong precisely to the division headquarters (moreover, one of the sides of one of the banners is not red, but probably white or yellow). Only one of them is real "official", the rest are gift and patronage.





This is the banner. On the red side there is an inscription: "From the All-Russian Central Executive Committee", on the white side there is a map of the division's combat path and the inscription: "Glory to the red heroes who liberated the workers and peasants from the (river) Volga to (lake) Baikal!"
By the way, it was this banner that became the official banner of the division, since it was presented by the All-Russian Central Executive Committee, the highest legislative body of the Soviet Republic.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 05:17:10 AM by cuprum »

Offline Mark Plant

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 501
    • Pygmy Wars : Russian Civil War and Related Stuff
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2021, 05:15:43 AM »
I love the way you have all those photos that I have never seen before! All the flags for one HQ is pretty cool.

Offline Mike Blake

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 320
  • Size Does Matter! - 54mm - The One True Scale
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2021, 09:58:51 AM »
Great stuff guys. Keep it coming please, pour encourager les autres of us to get on and paint figures.

Offline cuprum

  • Scatterbrained Genius
  • Posts: 2330
  • The Orient - is a tricky!
    • Studio "Siberia"
Re: Pygmy Wars back up - help wanted
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2021, 10:22:10 AM »
So ask questions  ;)
If I can do something to help, I will always do it.
Any questions that interest you, for any period of history, any wars that are associated with Russia. Uniform, organization, terrain, some unclear points. If I have such information, you will know it  :)

 

Related Topics

  Subject / Started by Replies Last post
5 Replies
3257 Views
Last post March 20, 2010, 11:41:13 PM
by kidterminal
2 Replies
1611 Views
Last post July 01, 2015, 12:09:19 PM
by Grimjack
63 Replies
5253 Views
Last post July 20, 2020, 12:16:58 PM
by majorsmith
15 Replies
745 Views
Last post January 24, 2022, 01:19:34 PM
by cuprum
13 Replies
1038 Views
Last post May 09, 2022, 06:40:34 AM
by Ignatieff