New to ECW

[levied troop]

At a skirmish level there’s Sharply Buffed, available from the Lardy Summer Special 2017  and keeping with a card-based rule set but on a larger level there’s Quindia Studios Victory Without Quarter, a useful description here:
https://declaresir.blogspot.com/2016/05/victory-without-quarter-rules-review.html

[Sparrow]

I think you’re overstating it a bit

Sadly, from my point of view  I really don’t think I am. I appreciate you are a fan, (and that in this particular Wargames forum they seem very popular) and if you like them then great, but I like my historical Wargames to have some history in them. My personal experience of these rules was that the history was sadly lacking. It was more Hollywood ECW than period flavour.

In the end it’s horses for courses. I know what I look for in a game and these rules certainly did not provide it. As I said, it’d be very dull if we were all the same?

[Captain Blood]

Sadly, from my point of view  I really don’t think I am. I appreciate you are a fan, (and that in this particular Wargames forum they seem very popular) and if you like them then great, but I like my historical Wargames to have some history in them. My personal experience of these rules was that the history was sadly lacking. It was more Hollywood ECW than period flavour.

In the end it’s horses for courses. I know what I look for in a game and these rules certainly did not provide it. As I said, it’d be very dull if we were all the same?

Oh, I don’t think you’re wrong. They are decidedly more Hollywood than history, but I was replying to our previous correspondent’s comment that the rules have ‘ZERO’ to do with the ECW or TYW, which is plainly overstating the case. He / you may not like the way aspects of mid C17th warfare, troop types and so on are represented in the rules, but there’s definitely an attempt to represent them.

I wouldn’t say I’m a fan of TPL - I can see their limitations as well as the next man. But I do enjoy the games I play with them. Everyone recognises that the entire stable of Lion Rampant derivatives is basically one generic set that unashamedly puts a fun game with a sprinkle of period flavour ahead of any attempt at detailed historical simulation. The author makes no pretence otherwise.

My feeling is that wargamers sometimes over-rely on rules to provide the game. Rules are not the game. Rules are merely a framework to facilitate a game. Not an end in themselves, but a means to an end – a tool for playing an enjoyable wargame in a given setting. The choice of rules can reinforce that setting with more or less historical fidelity to things like organisation and tactics. But in a skirmish level game, does it really matter? Small groups of men trying to shoot or stab each other over hedgerows or in back gardens, are much the same throughout history. It’s not the same as trying to recreate Naseby with 10,000 figures. Horses for courses, as you say.

If I use ECW figures on terrain that looks plausibly like mid-C17th England, in a game featuring real or fictional ECW characters, with a scenario / narrative that’s all recognisably set in the ECW, then that’s an ECW game. It may not be your idea of an ECW game – and I love to see the big, historical ECW battles you and your friends have put on - but as you keep saying, it’s a good job we all like different things.

[Patrice]

Rules are not the game. Rules are merely a framework to facilitate a game. Not an end in themselves, but a means to an end – a tool for playing

Superbly said.

[Radar]

Not sure if "File Leader" is still available.  I can't see them for sale on the Caliver/Partizan Press website albeit there is reference to them.  Might be worth dropping an e-mail to Caliver. I do have the original 1988 version.  They are not 1-1 skirmish as each figures represents approx 10 men. I'm not sure you could fit modern 28mm figures on the movement tray they suggest! If you get no joy in locating them I could send you a scanned copy as they only run to c15 pages .

Regards

Superceded by Once Upon A Time In The West Country I believe. Which are still available. Very underated game.

Not quite sure that you should be offering to scan a ruleset - more than a bit naughty on the copyright front (even if your intentions are public spirited)

[Codsticker]

Superceded by Once Upon A Time In The West Country I believe. Which are still available. Very underated game.

I forgot about them- very much "true" skirmish, with a half dozen figures per side.

[Captain Darling]

Not sure if you are after Skirmish or big battle rules and you’re getting suggestions for both.
My mates and I have just started playing ECW ‘big’ battles, we play tested three sets of rules; Pike & Shotte, Victory Without Quarter and Baroque.
Our criteria were we wanted not necessarily the best set of rules BUT the best set of rules that gave a game with period feel, were not overly complex, could easily accommodate multiple players per side and we could complete a game in an evening session (we meet Monday nights and don’t want to be playing til 1:00am Tuesday morning 😲).
They came in (in our opinions);
1. Baroque
2. Victory Without Quarter
3. Pike & Shotte
We played our first Monday Baroque ECW game just this week and even with a couple of newbies to the rules the game was exciting, felt right and we completed it with time for a debrief! So to reiterate Baroque are not the definitive ECW Rules but fit our criteria best  so could be worth looking up some reviews of these titles (I actually thought Victory Without Quarter was very good, if it had been complete it would have been my choice but too many loose ends in its current state).

[NurgleHH]

My feeling is that wargamers sometimes over-rely on rules to provide the game. Rules are not the game. Rules are merely a framework to facilitate a game. Not an end in themselves, but a means to an end – a tool for playing an enjoyable wargame in a given setting.

You are right as usual, Sir Riccardo. I made some games with you old London boys. They were always fun and the rules never made the games. The players make the games and not the rules. Easy rules, a bunch of silly boys, a small glas of beer and a wonderful board with nice figures is a game, the rest is a wargames tournament.