2nd edition Chaos Space Marines

[Vanvlak]

What with Andym's 2nd ed. Space Wolves and Giger's '90's Chaos Space Marines, I got drawn into (or back to) 2nd edition 40K too. I considered Space Marines and Eldar (as I recently had fun painting a single Harlequin), but the variety possible with Chaos just drew me back. Especially when I realised that a Nurgle Chaos Lord can take a Beast of Nurgle as a pet Chaos Reward. My long-suffering commander, Lord Vortek*, will be back.
I am not going to attempt to replicate the schemes of the day, but I will at least try to retain the spirit of 2nd ed. I will probably have a heck of a time finding the models, so my painting will not have unit cohesion.

*This means that if he has a grenade, he would have Vortek's grenade... er ... gods, that was Khorney. 

[Major_Gilbear]

Hmm, if you're after some old models on a budget, and you intend to kitbash and convert them, a few things worth keeping in mind:

1) There was a plastic Chaos Marines box, with separate plastic heads/torsos, legs, and arm, weapon, and backpack sprues that was released back in the day. They came five to a box (so two of each sculpt), and although they're not too common, they are often quite cheap when they do appear.

2) Similar to the above, there was also a 6-man Space Marine set that was a lot like their Chaos counterpart, and again is uncommon but fairly cheap. These counted as "multipart plastic" kits back in the days of 2E.

3) There were also monopose plastic figures for Khorne Berserkers and Plague Marines. These easy and cheap to find, and some moderate variety can be achieved with judicious arm swaps and the occasional head swap.

4) The kits above can all be mixed and matched fairly easily to add variety, and are also fairly compatible with the Warhammer Fantasy multi-part plastic Chaos Warriors. In particular, the helmets and arms from the fantasy kit fit rather well, and the weapons (axes and swords in particular) also go well. The kit was later re-cut to add in more weapons and command parts (all on fewer sprues too), which therefore had a massive and very over-the-top standard/icon - perfect for 40k Chaos. Finally, the later iterations of the kit came with a "mutations" sprue, which was popular enough to be kept around on its own long after the rest of the kit was discontinued - well worth finding one of these if you can, as everything on it can be used!

5) Even all the way back to the beginning, it was common to convert imperial Marines into their Chaos equivalents. In the 2E Chaos Codex, there were lots of examples of this too.

Some pictures to assist with identifying the models I mention above:

Old Chaos Marines multi-part kit images:



Old Space Marines multi-part kit images:



Old Khorne Berserker and Plague Marine plastic images:


Old Chaos Warriors kit images (NB: this was the later version - there was an earlier one with fewer parts on smaller sprues too):



Of course, you may well prefer to pick up some metals, either in a big job lot or in small lots! But the plastics of the era were quite good for their time, and fit in very well - not mention they are easier to cut and convert due to their material. Anyway, just some food for thought, and I look forward to seeing what you come up with. 

[Vanvlak]

Thanks Major_Gilbear - I remember those CSMs fondly - easily interchangeable with other models, and they don't need a million fiddly bits to assemble.
I need to trawl the basement to find what I have left of those models - not many, unfortunately. I might trawl for some of these. Thanks for the pics - I'd forgotten some of those, it was a grand time for Chaos 40K.
The one sad thing about 2nd ed was they'd dropped Chaos robots and Chaos androids!

[Major_Gilbear]

Hehe, no worries - those old multipart plastics were a bit of an oddity back in the day, since I remember a blister of 3 metal models was around the initial price of those kits... Then, after a price rise, a plastic box was the same price as two blisters (for the same number of figures). 

In any case, I only remembered their existence a few years back when I stumbled across them online somewhere.

As for the Androids and Robots, I think these were dropped in 2E because Necrons were likely in early development and they would otherwise be very similar. Hmm, maybe stick a couple of converted old metal Necrons in there as a nod to the old Androids? Any bits you cut off them make for good bionics on the Marines too.

One more for you; the plastic Chaos Marauders. I know these are not well-loved, but if you need beefy arms, heads, horned helmets, fur cloaks, pauldrons, etc, they scale very well with space marine models. Again, easy/cheap enough to acquire a few if you fancy them. 

[Vanvlak]

Thanks Major.
You're right about the Necrons as a development of Chaos Androids which displaced them. I have a small stash of metal Necrons waiting in line for this treatment in fact - one of them should be the free Necron model given away with White Dwarf when they first appeared. Those were the days!
Tempted to paint them in white, as they appeared in some photos - not so sure about the Khorne emblem seen on one piece of artwork, although red on white would look good.

The Marauders are an excellent idea, thanks - for once most of mine are assembled and painted (as Marauders), but I should have some left-over bits - and at least one is destined to become a cultist. I had forgotten about the daemon and cultist army lists at the end of the 2nd ed. codex, including beastmen, minotaurs and trolls.

I also found the rules for a quartet of named daemon princes, and the Nurgle one, something-spawn, sounded interesting. Don't think any model was issued for it, so a-converting I will go.

Meanwhile the excavation for old models dug up a forgotten squad of five Terminators and a Forgeworld flying Ad Mech drone thingy I'd forgotten I had - it does not fit in the army list, still, it's Chaos, so...

[Major_Gilbear]

Yeah, the additional cult/daemonworld army lists in the back were a nice extra. Not sure how much of an "army" you could really make with either of them though, but I always assumed they were supposed to an allied contingent to the Chaos Marines.

I think the Nurgle DP you mean was Foulspawn? Funnily enough, for the fantasy End Times that GW did before they killed the game off, they made some big Nurgle beasties that would work well as Foulspawn if you left the riders off: Glottkin and Maggoth Lord. No idea if you can still get them, or what the prices for them are, but you may find a broken one on eBay for a reasonable price as a starting point. Even if nothing else, they offer some good ideas about what the DP might look like (I think the Maggoth beast is particularly good).

As for your flying FW drone thingy... You could use it as a land speeder maybe? The old 2E Chaos Codex let you include "modern" Space Marine equipment and vehicles for a 50% points premium to reflect recently-turned-Renegade or rare Chaos assets.

[Vanvlak]

Foulspawn, that's the one (I was too lazy to check the name yesterday evening!). And I have that model! I was thinking of using it for a different scope, but might take this option. It certainly has the tongue for it....

Landspeeders and SM options - you're right! I forgot about that detail. I really need to re-read the old codex. And that solves the metal Necron flyers too, and I have the excuse for it: in the old lore, Chaos Squats designed the Chaos Androids; my take is that they uncovered some dormant old Necrons and  rewired them (and brushed on Chaos emblems).

The appendix lists: that was my plan, not a full army, but allies, which allow a few fun models to get on the table. 

This feels a bit like producing the army I always wanted all those years back, but could not afford or get hold of!
Keep the ideas coming!

[Major_Gilbear]

Ah, yes, Chaos Squats! I think they were supposed to be responsible for building a lot of the Khorne Daemon Engines in the old 2E Epic/TL lore, so it would make sense that they made the Chaos Androids too.  Edit: Perhaps that's why the old Androids had Khorne symbols on them...?

I think you should definitely find and re-read your 2E Codex Chaos book, as there's loads of ideas and artwork in there to get you going, as well as surprising little rules details that you can use "counts as" models for. Not least, it also has this (in)famous double-page spread by John Blanche that's brimming with conversion suggestions:

[Vanvlak]

Ah, yes, Chaos Squats! I think they were supposed to be responsible for building a lot of the Khorne Daemon Engines in the old 2E Epic/TL lore, so it would make sense that they made the Chaos Androids too.  Edit: Perhaps that's why the old Androids had Khorne symbols on them...?

I think you should definitely find and re-read your 2E Codex Chaos book, as there's loads of ideas and artwork in there to get you going, as well as surprising little rules details that you can use "counts as" models for. Not least, it also has this (in)famous double-page spread by John Blanche that's brimming with conversion suggestions:

Makes sense... and I guess the war engines would have left the Berzerkers free to have fun in melee, whilst the androids and the larger war machines did the boring old shooting.
I loved that double page of art! The fact he included indications of specific bits to use added to its charm!

[Vanvlak]

Possibly for the first time in forty-four years of trying to build models, I am baffled by one - the GW resin rendition of the Beast of Nurgle from a few years back. No instructions (I might have misplaced them) and too many bits which could be sprue or could be tabs which fit into other bits!

Round one to resin; but it's not over, I found a pic of one and will try to use that as a guide to assemble the thing - GW pic: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/08/29/who-is-horticulous-slimux-aug29gw-homepage-post-3/#gallery-3

Nurgle will feature quite a lot in this old and new army - if I get past the start line with this model, that is!

Later: after finally understanding that what I took for a tail was actually its tongue (and chin), and sorting out which was a leg and which the neck, I managed to assemble it. Typical of GW's non-Forgeworld resin models, it needs quite a bit of filler, but that's only after I am happy the glue set. In the meantime, another trip to the Eye of Terror cellar produced another beast, this time the slightly later plastic one. Seems to be a bit bigger. Still, Nurgle daemons in particular come in all shapes and sizes, so, no problem there. I also need to find a base as I must have lost the one which came with the original.

[Vanvlak]

These are the latest Chaos models which I had finished prior to the current project.

The PlagueBurst Crawler obviously came later than 2nd ed., so it could only count as a 50% more expensive SM Vindicator. Nurgle's Rotters from Blood Bowl, which would be used as Plague Zombies used as cultists (as Plague Zombies are also post-2nd ed.)!


The Crawler again. Nurgle armour is fun to paint.

[Vanvlak]

Would be nice to have at least one of each model included in the lists.
I compiled a spreadsheet of the models I still have not dug up from the cellar; am uncertain of what to use, although a potential solution is found; or have no suitable model - I need to find/resolve 51! Out of these, however, only 16 are models I cannot think of an alternative for. In some cases I have the complete model, but finished in the past and possibly on a square instead of round base. Do I use these? In one case I certainly will - I have made a conversion of Cypher for 2nd edition Chaos, and have no intention of replacing him. 
The long list - I have excluded from the total the models already dug up - shows the vastness of this particular Codex, which might just have been one of my two favourites (the other being the contemporary Chaos fantasy one with Warrior, Beastman and Daemon armies all in one volume).

[Major_Gilbear]

Looks very good, especially the Plague Crawler! Sadly, there was no 2E Vindicator for Space Marines either (the plastic-metal hybrid model I'm sure you're thinking of was released in 3E). You could count it as a Whirlwind + 50% pts though? Alternatively, try using the VDR rules and perhaps treat it as a Predator that swaps its turret for a fixed Demolisher cannon and the sponson-mounted weapons for Autocannons or Heavy Flamers?

[...] one of my two favourites (the other being the contemporary Chaos fantasy one with Warrior, Beastman and Daemon armies all in one volume).

I think there were two books around the time this Codex was - the 4E Chaos, and the 5E Realm of Chaos. The first was just a big grab-bag of everything, whereas the second was structured around characters and their retinues. I much preferred the second one, but I know most Chaos players of the day preferred the first... Ah well, a topic for another day! 

[Vanvlak]

You're right, and I just realised I've seen too many editions of 40K (let alone WHFB!).
Ah well - it can still serve as something or other - your suggestion could work.
And anyway, at leas tit's not part of the current plan for 2nd ed. - I'm only working on Chaos Androids and Chaos Orks for that.... 
I think this is not really going to qualify as a WYSIWYG army, more of a YCGA* army.

You Could Get Anything. Even if it's not on the army list but takes my fancy.

[Major_Gilbear]

...Never mind WYSIWYG, I'm getting the feeling it may not even qualify for a 2E army either!