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Author Topic: Mahdist Basing  (Read 1009 times)

Offline VonAkers

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 210
Mahdist Basing
« on: October 25, 2021, 04:44:55 AM »
Hi Guys
I got a ton of new Fuzzy Wuzzys the other day.
Im not sure how to base them .
I have seen lots ranked up on square bases looking like  French Imperial Guard .. and I think they look unrealistic and horrific ..  lol
Any ideas or suggestions on what looks good ?( not singles )
Unit size aprox 40 /50 figures .
Let me know when you have a moment .
Cheers

Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10630
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2021, 06:59:16 AM »
I'm using Kevin Calder's Up the Nile Rules and have the Beja bases as be,ow on 50mm round bases:




I used to have them based as below but they just look a far too regimented on rectangular bases for my taste:



I much prefer them on round bases and will doing the same for the Cavalry units too.

There's a quite a few posts on the Beja and why I decided on using Kevin Calder's Up the Nile Rules on by blog here:
http://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.com/search?q=Beja%23


Offline sultanbev

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 49
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2021, 08:34:50 AM »
We base them on 2p coins and use Warbases irregular shaped bases that have 4 holes in, well I think they were Warbases, might be someone else:
pic hosting

This is a half-regiment of Ethiopian spear and javelinmen from my 19th Century Ethiopian army - we use 1:30 figure ratio so this represents a 500 man battalion.

Offline TacticalPainter

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 383
    • The Tactical Painter
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2021, 11:32:53 PM »
I think to some degree it depends what rules you intend to use and whether they require figure removal for casualties. I have Men Who Would Be Kings and Sharp Practice in mind, so largish skirmish games where individual figure removal is required (or at least desirable). Like you I didn't want the appearance of drilled ranks of regular troops, so while I use sabot bases for my British, who are based individually on 25mm rounds, the same regimentation wasn't going to work for the Mahdists. However I like the convenience of sabot bases or bases of multiple troops for the convenience of moving large units around the tabletop. So I settled on a compromise of basing in 3,s, 2s and 1s, that way I had a compromise that would work for single figure removal but the convenience of moving multiple figures on single bases.

I decided against a standard base size for the 3s and 2s, instead I bought a large piece of MDF basing board and cut it into smaller pieces and then made up natural edges by sanding with my Dremel. I still wanted to create the slightly chaotic look of a large tribal group and avoid any standard sizes or shapes. Anyhow, just my preference but thought I'd give you the thinking behind it.







The Tactical Painter

Offline Eric the Shed

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 4060
    • Shed Wars
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2021, 06:51:26 AM »
I am going to base mine on 10 x 10cm coasters like my Zulus - 8-9 figures per base - 4 bases per unit...




Offline VonAkers

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 210
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2021, 10:19:47 PM »
Hi Guys
Thankyou for the prompt replies and feed back , most appreciated.
TP i do like the way you have based yours . i Ihink I shall move towards that direction.
I really like the "Swarm "look .
Having followed the TV coverage of the arab spring ... my mate and i were quite engrossed , mostly an overhead view of the riots .. lol
I liked how the swarm moved around , it is the look , that is the look you have captured, well done .
Cheers.

Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10630
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2021, 06:28:47 AM »
Having followed the TV coverage of the arab spring ... my mate and i were quite engrossed , mostly an overhead view of the riots .. lol
I liked how the swarm moved around , it is the look , that is the look you have captured, well done .

I'm not so sure the Beja/Ansar were as disorganised as a group of rioters. There seems to be something wrong with that analogy, possibly on a few different levels. It is a mistake to see a lot of African armies as rabble. For example, one of the most successful African armies I know of was the Zulu. Could that highly disciplined and organised force be called a rabble in the same way as rioters? The forces of the followers of the Mahdi were not far behind, if not better disciplined than the forces of the Zulu.

The followers of the Mahdi were quite a disciplined force. How else could they have broken the (at the time) stoic British square at Battle of Abu Klea?

Offline TacticalPainter

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 383
    • The Tactical Painter
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2021, 06:36:41 AM »
I donít disagree. I think the aim is to avoid the more rigid look of European, drilled armies. Thereís definitely a contrasting style of fighting with groups focused very much around charismatic leaders and in the Mahdists case a bravery that comes with a belief in the righteousness of your cause.

Wasnít part of the success at Abu Klea the short distance they charged having surprised the British with their concealed movement prior to the charge? Clearly sound tactics given the lethality of charging a long distance in the face of modern weapons, amply demonstrated at Omdurman.

Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10630
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2021, 06:49:15 AM »
I donít disagree. I think the aim is to avoid the more rigid look of European, drilled armies. Thereís definitely a contrasting style of fighting with groups focused very much around charismatic leaders and in the Mahdists case a bravery that comes with a belief in the righteousness of your cause.

Wasnít part of the success at Abu Klea the short distance they charged having surprised the British with their concealed movement prior to the charge?

Yes, there were other factors in play at Abu Klea but an unorganised, indisciplined army could not have made that charge and broken the square.

Clearly sound tactics given the lethality of charging a long distance in the face of modern weapons, amply demonstrated at Omdurman.

Well, the Maxim Gun made all the difference at Omdurman. Military tech had moved on quickly from the time of Abu Klea to Omdurman.

Offline sultanbev

  • Assistant
  • Posts: 49
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2021, 09:49:40 AM »
Mahdists, and Zulus and Abyssinnians for that matter, did have actual organisation.

A Mahdist Rub, being roughly equivalent to a European regiment had:
Rub HQ: 1 mounted Amir
2 "battalions"@ 1-5 companies@ 100 men in 4 platoons, sword and spears
1 "battalion": 1 or more companies@ 100 rifle men in 4 platoons
1 "battalion": 1 or more companies@ 100 cavalry or camelry with spears, some with rifles

They certainly weren't "rioting mobs".
See MicroMark lists AF2N to AF5N over on the Wargames Vault for actual known unit sizes for Mahdists during 1895-1898.



Offline Atheling

  • Elder God
  • Posts: 10630
    • Just Add Water Wargaming Blog
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2021, 09:56:11 AM »
Mahdists, and Zulus and Abyssinnians for that matter, did have actual organisation.

A Mahdist Rub, being roughly equivalent to a European regiment had:
Rub HQ: 1 mounted Amir
2 "battalions"@ 1-5 companies@ 100 men in 4 platoons, sword and spears
1 "battalion": 1 or more companies@ 100 rifle men in 4 platoons
1 "battalion": 1 or more companies@ 100 cavalry or camelry with spears, some with rifles

100%

They certainly weren't "rioting mobs".
See MicroMark lists AF2N to AF5N over on the Wargames Vault for actual known unit sizes for Mahdists during 1895-1898.

Absolutely not. They were very organised and knew how to fight efficiently their way. Just look at how they swept the Egyptian expedition not to mention Hicks's Pasha's debacle.

Offline Deedles

  • Mastermind
  • Posts: 1015
    • One man & his brushes
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2021, 10:12:18 PM »
Mine are in a whole range of shapes abs sizes

My larger size ones use Big Red Bat bases




They are used to make up large units along with a range of smaller bases and other shaped bases
« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 10:16:07 PM by Deedles »
Cheers
Deedles

One day the lead mountain will be gone.... one day

http://onemanhisbrushes.blogspot.co.uk/
http://blazingdice.blogspot.co.uk/

Offline bollix

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 50
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2021, 11:18:01 PM »
Really like those Big Red Bat bases for massed units, very nice idea that I hadn't taken notice of before.

Cary

Offline Jack Jones

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 102
    • Sands of Soudan
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2021, 01:01:01 PM »
Nicely done.

I prefer to reserve round bases for scenic elements, with all my figures based on rectangular or square bases. I like the diagrammatic look of it.

Cheers
JJ

Offline VonAkers

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 210
Re: Mahdist Basing
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2021, 11:28:10 PM »
Atheling.
Oh Dear...talk about a thread Hi Jack ... lol lol
Clearly this thread was Only about the Basing / look of the Miniatures.
This was for me to get the Correct "Look "to the 600 Fuzzies I have.
I have seen them based in ranks which to me always looked wrong .
I want them to look like a surging swarm ,units yes for gaming sake  ,but overall a mass moving like a swarm taking advantage of Cover, wadis, hills etc  and not confined by basing,  most replies get that ..

However  I did not compare the Hadendawa to a Rioting Mob ,you did .

They were obviously not , a rioting mob, even if they "looked"like it .. lol

However nor were they an Organised Army in a European  in any way shape or form , they were Clans & Tribal groups .. , any other suggestion is well..mostly barking up the wrong Palm tree... lol...
I think you may be confusing being Very Brave and Fanatical , with being Organised.
 
Secondly the Platoon Organisation put forward by By Sultan Bev, and gleefully endorsed by you  is non sence  at best .. Mahdist Platoons ..???  please .. lol lol lol lol
.
Thirdly  the Hadendawa where not the forces that fought at Abu Klea and broke the square , that was a contingent of "Mahdist Main force"from Omdurman ( a collection of Tribes )
As Tp  points out there was multiple reasons for the Square being broken, not the least being how brave and numerous & fanatically  motivated the Mahdists were , none of these reasons  would ever include .. "being Organised"
Lastly your quote  that
Absolutely not. They were very organised and knew how to fight efficiently their way. Just look at how they swept the Egyptian expedition not to mention Hicks's Pasha's debacle.
 .

Once again your  opinion that they were organised because they beat Hicks Pasha ?? , well this is does not stack up .. sorry..and especially so with an Early Mahdist force.
 
The army that Hicks Pasha Led was Universally accepeted as being very Poorly motivated , dispirited and terribly badly led , effectively they were beaten and knew it before they left , some of the Fellaheen battalions had not been paid in 25 months.. , and were "Soldiers""  in name only .

Time for some reading , May I recommend  the excellent book by Lt Colonel Mike Snook, "Go Strong into the Desert "as a excellent current view.
Cheers

 

 

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