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Author Topic: Hellas V Macedonia  (Read 1057 times)

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2021, 04:10:45 PM »
Does a suitable system exist, or am I going to have to be creative and devise my own
I can completely understand why you might want something "off the peg", but if you have something that's close enough, it would seem to me to be easier to adapt that than writing something from scratch.

For example, if you like Hail Caesar but not the combat, could you tweak the combat to make it more decisive and less of a grind?

As for my own 2 denarii, what about Warhammer Ancient Battles? I know it can be clunky, but I am virtually certain most/all of it is familiar to you already (judging from your WHFB High Elf thread), and that would make it easier if you wanted to kludge any rules. Another alternative is Kings of War Historical, which would certainly give you fast gameplay but might not be very historical...


(@ Aethling: I think trev knows that, and was just making a joke based on other posters suggesting things that had already been ruled out - hence the wink!  ;)   )
« Last Edit: November 24, 2021, 04:44:44 PM by Major_Gilbear »

Offline Atheling

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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2021, 04:27:31 PM »

(@ Aethling: I think trev knows that, and was just making a joke based on other posters suggesting things that had already been ruled out - hence the wink!  ;)   )

Yeah, I got that. But given that this thread has already gone off the beaten track once, with disastrous consequences as Doombeard has now left LAF, I thought a mild adjustment of the rudder was in order  :)

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2021, 04:33:12 PM »
[...] Doombeard has now left LAF [...]
He has? Oh dear, I hope he comes back.  :( 

Offline trev

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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2021, 05:15:28 PM »
Sorry Atheling,  I was just being silly.  I'll email him.

T

Offline Atheling

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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2021, 07:30:04 PM »
Sorry Atheling,  I was just being silly.  I'll email him.

T

No worries. It was just my attempt to bring the focus back to the gist of the original question :)

Offline Johnp4000

  • Librarian
  • Posts: 135
Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2021, 10:24:26 AM »
I think the issue is that most generic sets of ancient rules which cover such a wide period of history, rarely produce a historical game. Most rules sets are the wiz bang types where the game just breaks down into a series of unrelated combats, that can be enjoyable to play but hardly realistic.
I was at a show watching a TTs phalanx game, it was interesting but I don't think it  remotely recreated the Macedonian style. You had 5 battalions of pikemen, three were in line while 2 were in opposite different parts of the table, there didn't seem to be any advantage to remaining in line, or disadvantaged by being deployed so far away from the pike's supports. I would find it difficult to believe that a pike unit would risk its flanks by moving so far away from its supports?
Doom Beard is looking for the holy grail of wargaming a set that rewards period tactics while still being playable! I vaguely remember in the dark days of WRG's domination of the hobby, a set called Hoplite which had a sequel called phalanx that tired to replicate in a narrow period historical tactics. But can't remember any details.

Offline SteveBurt

  • Mastermind
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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2021, 10:43:56 AM »
There is a free set from the Perfect Captain called Hoplomachia, but I think that only covers Hoplite battles, not Macedonian stuff.
Tactica 2 might fit the bill; does require large numbers of figures, and the battle is pretty static, but that is probably realistic.
I would have suggested Strategos, but the OP says he hates grids

Offline bigredbat

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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2021, 11:36:18 AM »
Quote
I was at a show watching a TTs phalanx game, it was interesting but I don't think it  remotely recreated the Macedonian style. You had 5 battalions of pikemen, three were in line while 2 were in opposite different parts of the table, there didn't seem to be any advantage to remaining in line, or disadvantaged by being deployed so far away from the pike's supports. I would find it difficult to believe that a pike unit would risk its flanks by moving so far away from its supports?

I'd reply to this but George didn't want to discuss TtS!

George is, like many of us, on the endless quest for the ideal ruleset - in his case to replace his beloved WAB (a great set of rules for which I retain a considerable respect). Rule sets are a very subjective thing- I couldn't find one that I liked sufficiently, so I wrote my own. My hunch would be that George might need to do the same- perhaps another WAB successor set-  unless there are some other WAB opponents out there in reach of north London?

Offline Johnp4000

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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2021, 12:13:34 PM »
I'd reply to this but George didn't want to discuss TtS!

George is, like many of us, on the endless quest for the ideal ruleset - in his case to replace his beloved WAB (a great set of rules for which I retain a considerable respect). Rule sets are a very subjective thing- I couldn't find one that I liked sufficiently, so I wrote my own. My hunch would be that George might need to do the same- perhaps another WAB successor set-  unless there are some other WAB opponents out there in reach of north London?

I think Doom Bread was at this  show and he was telling me, the numerous fails in rulesets at recreating Phalanx warfare. It is a pity that the Successor WAB supplement was never released as I believe this had special rules which tried to add more period favour.

I remember chatting to you at Salute once, about the other ancient holy grail , a rule set that recreates Roman manipular tactics, but as we don't know the details ,any rule set will be subjective as to its accuracy. Although I think WAB had a good attempt, in its Hannibal supplement, most rulesets just ignore it!

Offline SJWi

  • Mad Scientist
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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2021, 12:45:35 PM »
By the way if someone is looking for “the Successor” to WAB what about Rob Broom’s “War and Conquest”? I was never a fan of WAB but bought War and Conquest when I saw Rob running a Hellenistic game at Partizan in Kelham Hall. He told me that this is the set he planned WAB V2 to be !

 I never played them and sold them on last year but might be if interest.
 
 Simon

Offline bigredbat

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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2021, 01:24:04 PM »
Quote
Although I think WAB had a good attempt, in its Hannibal supplement, most rulesets just ignore it!

Yes indeed, many do. It's such a shame WAB lost steam when it was doing what it did rather well. My favourite things about it were the supplements (I think I have all of them) with all the fun special period rules written by enthusiasts and also all the love that people threw into the modelling.


Offline Atheling

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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2021, 07:29:20 PM »
Ultimately, we all have out favourites and love to ostentate the merits of each system (I'm as guilty as anyone in that regard!). But, this is not what Doombeard was asking from us. From my reading of his text he made the point of excluding some rules with the purpose of hopefully avoiding the usual answers one gets when one pops a question about recommendations for a rules system.

It's often information overflow at best or at worse, no one actually reads the content of the question and you get dislocated replies.

Doombeard has now left LAF and I get the feeling that he is not going to return. Which is a real shame. He has been a very active member of the Ancients community for many years and has play tested more rules than I have read in my entire life. It is almost certainly to our detriment that we have lost Doombeard IMHO.

That's my two cents and I'm going to bow out now.

Offline swiftnick

  • Mastermind
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Re: Hellas V Macedonia
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2021, 08:05:50 PM »
That really is a shame.

 

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