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Author Topic: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war  (Read 4420 times)

Offline Kourtchatovium104

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Hello ! I’ve read that the admiral Kolchak had bought some chinese blue uniforms for his soldiers but I didn’t find any photo of Kolchak siberian troops wearing this uniform. Is that true ? Does anyone have information about it ? Thank you.


Offline Mike Blake

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2021, 02:56:25 PM »
excellent thanks - have some figures I wanted to paint dark blue for late BU Chinese  - now I can and can use them BoB! That website really is a great resource - keep finding more - had looked at Kolchek but missed this.
Size Does Matter! - 54mm - The One True Scale

Offline Kourtchatovium104

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2021, 01:56:48 PM »
Thanks! That is exactly the information I need to add variousness for my kolchak army  :)

Offline trev

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2021, 01:58:10 PM »
Thanks! That is exactly the information I need to add variousness for my kolchak army  :)

I'd love to see pictures of your army.  Are you doing particular regiments?

These are my Siberians here:
https://thebitsbox.blogspot.com/search/label/Siberian%20Army

Offline Kourtchatovium104

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2021, 02:45:28 PM »
After having a look at your blog and its great photos, I see we have the same taste for RWC miniatures ;)

I'm doing, with more or less accuracy, the Orenburg Cossacks infantery and the Siberian army infantery, with some vehicles. I'm planning to add to them some soldiers in british uniforms and maybe in chinese ones too to reflect the variousness of Kolchak equipment. If I ever have the time, the 'yellow' Semionov's Cossacks of Transbaikalia also interest me. In this civil war, reflecting the difficulty of the time, all sort of uniform can be find, even in a single regiment. For our time, it's very fun to paint!

I'm not very good in taking photos but if I find some correct ones, I will post them  :)

Offline trev

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2021, 05:38:23 PM »
That sounds great.  I'd love to see your progress or a battle report.  I did Orenburg Cossacks mostly because they had blue facings and I didn't want any Red in my White Army for theming reasons.

I think there's lots of good info in that Kolchakiya site including details on regiments in British Uniforms and Semenov's forces too IIRC.  Photos show great variety but it's nice to include details when we can.  How you spell the ataman's name is harder to be sure of.  ;D  I'm following Jamie Bisher's spelling in his White Terror: Cossack warlords of the Trans-Siberian.  Pretty good background reading in English.  The OMO would have lots of Japanese kit for even greater variety.






Offline Kourtchatovium104

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2021, 11:25:43 AM »
Sorry, english is not my native language, you're right, Semenov is the english correct spelling (Semionov is the french spelling).

Here is a small photo that inspired me. Maybe it can inspire other people  ;)

Offline trev

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2021, 05:57:31 PM »
No apology needed, I wasn't criticising.  The wiki page has Semyonov.   :D

That's a good photo but I'd guess they are re-enactors rather than an original.  It looks a bit clean.

Certianly cleaner than these guys.  :o   I think these are all of Kolchak's Siberian army.



The striped flag on the side of these might mean these are former KOMUCH troops.  The hats are common for Kolchak's Siberian Army.  I think I will try to convert some at some point.



These look like dismounted cavalry.



These look to have improvised or locally made great coats.



Troops relaxing in the sunshine.  See the variety of uniforms, the green/white cap badges/ribbons and the shoulder boards.





This one is interesting.  They're just boys for starters but well armed and the lad with the black hat has a skull and cross bones arm patch.  With the black lapel stripes as well, I wonder if they are from an assault unit?!  Some have cut down rifles but probably more for ease of use than close action.



Now Cuprum or Mark can tell me why I'm wrong on all of this.  lol

Offline Mark Plant

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2021, 03:23:10 AM »
I go for Semenov, but Semënov when I'm being fussy. Transliteration from Russian is just a matter of personal preference. You boys are forgetting the Semenoff, Semionoff,  etc variants too.

I believe that the striped flag is the orange and black striped flag of Kolchak, as Commander-in-Chief, not of the unit. The unit is labelled in the White Russia Photoalbum as one of the 1919 Siberian "Storm" units -- that mostly ran away.

Offline trev

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2021, 12:19:53 PM »
I go for Semenov, but Semënov when I'm being fussy. Transliteration from Russian is just a matter of personal preference. You boys are forgetting the Semenoff, Semionoff,  etc variants too.

The "ff" versions look a bit period English to me.  So, maybe you would use that spelling in the British commander's briefing.  Spelling is fun.  :D

I believe that the striped flag is the orange and black striped flag of Kolchak, as Commander-in-Chief, not of the unit. The unit is labelled in the White Russia Photoalbum as one of the 1919 Siberian "Storm" units -- that mostly ran away.

Ahhhh.  I suspected I was cluthing at straws.  What is the "White Russia Photoalbum?"  Am I missing out on a resource?

Offline Mark Plant

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2021, 06:26:41 AM »
белая россия фотоальбом from Posev. It is a collection of most of the RCW photos, with short information on each. My copy is dated 2003 (and the binding collapsed almost immediately).

There's other similar ones: http://antika24.ru/belaya_armiya.html and https://www.emigrationrusse.com/ru/librairie/%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B8%D0%BD/%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%BB%D1%8E%D1%81%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F-%D0%B1%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8B%D1%85-%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BC/

Cuprum may be able to say which is best, and still available.

Offline trev

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2021, 04:38:00 PM »
белая россия фотоальбом from Posev. It is a collection of most of the RCW photos, with short information on each. My copy is dated 2003 (and the binding collapsed almost immediately).

Thanks.  Probably not easy to find now but I'll have a look.

Offline cuprum

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2021, 03:52:54 AM »
In the photo Kourtchatovium104 is really re-enactors. The photo is small, but I see two people (without visors on their caps), who depict the soldiers of the Kornilov regiment (or division) from the Denikin army, as well as the person on the right, who depicts a Cossack from the SS formations during the Second World War.

trev, in your photos:

1) Soldiers of the Western army of Kolchak after the fighting. Summer 1919. This state of uniform is typical for both the White and Red Army after prolonged hostilities.

2) Kolchak bypasses the formation of the Siberian Assault Brigade. 1919 year. The black and orange flag really means Army Headquarters.

3) Unknown cavalry unit. It can be assumed with a high degree of probability that these are not Cossacks, but regular cavalry, since their weapons are not of the Cossack type.

4) Kolchak receives a parade of troops in the city of Tobolsk, 1919. The soldiers have wonderful winter uniforms - sheepskin fur coats.

5 - 6) Soldiers of the Siberian Corps (the former army of the Siberian Regional Government).

7) These are cadets of the Siberian Cadet Corps, Omsk. 1919 They had to take part in the battle only during the retreat of the Whites to the Far East. They had to repel the attacks of the Red partisans on the retreating army, which they were part of.

Offline trev

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Re: A small detail about the siberian uniform during the russian civil war
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2021, 03:09:17 PM »
That's great detail Cuprum.  Thanks for the clarifications.  :D

 

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