Suggestions for rules for AFV Skirmish for 1940 to 1990 kit sought

[ar-pharazon]

Hi, I have a notion for playing a set of solo actions with a few AFVs either side in a campaign starting with earlyWW2 kit (Crusader, M14 and Valentine vs Lease Lend Stuarts and T34/76) going through 50s and 60s kit and ending up with M1A1s and T80s.

There will be times when kit from different generations will meet, as happened in reality, so T55s versus Shermans, or Tigers (wish I could get plastic Centurions)

Is there a set of AFV Skirmish rules that can cope with that?

It's a pity that "What a Tanker"'s Cold War expansion just resets the numbers. It seemed good otherwise.

[SJWi]

Ar-Pharazon, not exactly a set of "skirmish" rules but "Seven Days to the River Rhine" (SDttRR) published by Great Escape Games are Cold War ( 1980s) rules fought at 1-1 ( at least for vehicles).  They are "combined arms" but I guess you can drop the infantry component .  They produce a WW2 version called "Iron Cross" but I haven't played it and don't know if they can be "mixed and matched" as you suggest .I know someone has produced some SDttRR Arab-Israeli modifications which can be found on one of the forums. This may cover at least the Israeli up-gunned Shermans.     

[SHARPE52]

You could have a go at What a Tanker by TFL.
It's simple and amusing game. The time span is limited to WWII but I think you could find some adaptation for later periods.
Marco

[Dr DeAth]

I'd recommend What a Tanker too.  Simple but tactical game with a basic crew progression system.  Armour and Armament are both represented by dice pools and hits are evaluated using an opposed roll mechanism. I think it could be easily adapted to later periods just by adding modifiers for the tech advances, like stabilised turrets, better optics etc.  So long as you've got tanks of the same period on opposing forces you should be fine.

[fred]

I’m quite surprised at the recommendations for WAT - when we played it we thought it would have made more sense as a game with WWI bi-planes, not tanks.

I’m not sure many games will cover this range of tanks - as there is a such a range of gun penetrations and armour values.  Iron Cross gives a good game - I don’t recall the tank / anti-tank mechanisms in detail - and whether the later set just resets the armour values - or the scale was open ended that would allow it to cope with later period tanks.

Cold War Commander by Pendraken does cover Korea to Cold War - but its far from a skirmish game. It tracks armour and hits per stand (nominally a platoon) which allows for a fair level of variation. There is a WWII version, but I think there is some stat reset between the two sets.

[has.been]

when we played it we thought it would have made more sense as a game with WWI bi-planes, not tanks.

I don't know about that, there have been quite a few games where
I have not been able to get my flipping tank to move. Can't see
me having the same problem at 7000' with the old Sopwith Camel.
 

I am quite happy with WAT as a simple, fun, quick, tank skirmish.

[Ewart]

Force on Force?

The Bush Wars supplement has rules for T-34’s. So it wouldn’t be a stretch to work out Sherman values.

Airfix do a 1/72 plastic Centurion. Or Rubicon do an excellent 28mm (1/56) Centurion.

[S_P]

I'd use Arc of Fire to do that. It is an older set but will do what you need it to.

[SJWi]

Ar-Pharazon, since my original reply I've seen the various other posts and thought it worth clarifying exactly what you intend to do.  Is is a pure "armour vs armour" game or will  you want to use other troop types as well......or at least have the ability to expand to add other troop types in?  I see WAT recommended quite a lot and indeed play it myself as a pure "beer and pretzels" type game. Its "random" activation system is also good for solo gaming. However it is a pure "tank vs tank" game.  No use of armoured cars, anti-tank guns or even infantry-held anti-tank weapons.

Another combined arms set that I use is Plastic Soldier Company's "Battlegroup".  Firmly "combined arms" I guess you could play it just as an armour game. 

 

[ar-pharazon]

Hi, sorry, been down with the lurgi

It is pure vehicle on vehicle, so tanks with maybe a TOW toting HUMVEE or helicopter

I have "Seven Days to the River Rhine" (I just touched it) and WAT (and the WAT Cold War supplement, but as I said, it resets numbers rather than being able to cope)

Just so I could have a mix of WW2 opponents, then early Cold War (upgunned Shermans, War surplus Tigers vs T55s) and so on to M1A1s vs T80s

I did have a more modern trial with a IPM1 vs a T72 and T62M, using "Tanks:Modern Age" and wrote it up here
http://its-them.me.uk/salienthurcheon/?p=865

Thanks to everyone for answers. I may get Iron Cross and see how the numbers compare for individual vehicles with "Seven Days"

[fred]

Probably worth a look on GEG website or forum for Iron Cross lists - as I’m sure there are some for different forces on there, which should give you an idea of the stats

Here are a couple of example ones
Armoured Car, armour 9/8 gun 6
Grant, armour 14/11, gun 8/5
Crusader II armour 12/10 gun 6 (2pdr) and 8 for (6pdr)

[Pattus Magnus]

It has been a little while since I looked at my copies of 7 Days and Iron Cross, but I don’t think the stats as written are compatible across periods. Both systems use the same core mechanisms, but the stats for armor and guns are designed to be consistent within each book. So a Tiger is a top rated beast in Iron Cross, but would rate high in 7 Days if you used the stats as written. You would have to downgrade everything in Iron Cross to put the stats on the same scale.

[Ultravanillasmurf]

It might be a bit ancient, but the combat rules in the original or second edition Twilight 2000 rules might work for you.

Pretty detailed combat rules (even if an opposition BRDM2 took an AT-4 hit that passed through only causing a minor injury to the gunner). Definitely rules for ex-WW2 AFVs including T34 and M4A3 in the relevant expansions.

[ar-pharazon]

It has been a little while since I looked at my copies of 7 Days and Iron Cross, but I don’t think the stats as written are compatible across periods. <snip>  You would have to downgrade everything in Iron Cross to put the stats on the same scale.

Ta for the info

[ar-pharazon]

It might be a bit ancient, but the combat rules in the original or second edition Twilight 2000 rules might work for you.

<snip> Definitely rules for ex-WW2 AFVs including T34 and M4A3 in the relevant expansions.

Thanks, if nothing else, it might give me ideas for scaling