My first impressions of The Silver Bayonet

[Kikuchiyo]

Rilflemen have more expensive, harder to source equipment, maybe?

If it had +1 damage and +2 shoot maybe but for 5% better hit ratio and a few more inches range on a limited table
the 8 points aren't worth it

[BZ]

I think all of the XGrave games have exponencial growing point values. But as it is ment to be a campaign game, it is possible to start with cheap troops, and then change them later as the wealth grows.

[Kikuchiyo]

I think all of the XGrave games have exponencial growing point values. But as it is ment to be a campaign game, it is possible to start with cheap troops, and then change them later as the wealth grows.

I agree but I just think these are off compaired to other games you'd start with the low point troops and see a clear benifit to upgrading later, I can't see why you'd bother spending the extra with some of the choices, once you've a bit of xp with that 10 point infantryman you'd be worst off if you switched them out for an 18 point rifleman

Rifleman should have been 15 points max

[Archduke of Earl]

Re the cost vs effectiveness of the rifle/rifleman, I assume the standard ratings for the rifle - including the fact that it can reload as quickly as a musket - indicate the use of unpatched balls which have only slightly more accuracy than shots from a smoothbore musket.  A patched ball load, necessary to get the full effect of the rifling, would take at least twice as long to reload.

Therefore I'm planning on using as a house rule the following: "The first shot of a rifle in a scenario has a range of 36" and an additional +1 shooting modifier. All subsequent shots use the standard rules."

[BZ]

Dont forget that rifleman uses the skil dice and not the power dice. And you have equal amounts of both in the fate (?) pool, and majority of the weapons uses the power one. That means, that you will probably have more oppurtunities to reroll the attacks. Its not that much of a difference, but it is a difference.

[War Monkey]

You can fudge the numbers a little by maybe 5 maybe 10 points, after all it is your house rules. Like every team you have to have a Red Shirt or two as fodder, Privates Lead the Way! 

[Kikuchiyo]

I prefer to stick to the rules - have just settled on not having a rifleman in my unit - already have a pretty even split between skill and power dice re-rolls

[Wilgut Spleens]

I have played this game quite a few times now and it is fun!
It works better than any of the X grave games, the mechanics seem sound. There are definite tactical choices to make and they do influence play. The use of monster dice has often proven to be a little subgame all of its own. Especially when the horrible Black Dog appears.
I think you can only expect so much historical accuracy and realism in a game that has trolls, vampires, swivel guns, pixies etc. Nit-picking about ranges and effects of various weapons, quibbles about character classes (no voltigeur!) seems somewhat superfluous in a game where your best weapon might be a bag of salt or a carved leg bone or a piece of wood with a sigil on it. It’s an easy enough matter to write your own house rules or tweak a factor or two.
True the indexing leaves something to be desired and some of the character classes seem a little unbalanced, the Sapper is either way OP or way too cheap. You get the impression it was rushed into print and could have benefitted from some robust proof reading, but it really doesn’t matter. I can’t imagine SB being played competitively so I guess that’s no great issue.
The game does not purport to be a realistic simulation of warfare but it is fun. There’s a refreshingly new approach to traditional monsters such as goblins, which are not any kind of a push over and even a fairly simple foe such as a ghost can produce a few scares for even the hardiest soldier.
The game lends itself to modification too. As any mythical, legendary or even prehistorical beast may be expected to appear, plucked from its home by the mysterious Harvestmen, you can use any figures you choose and writing profiles for new monsters is an easy task.
Its quick to play, we knock out three games on a Sunday. The scenarios are well thought out, each one is very different from the last, some great surprises in there! The campaign is fun but over too soon.
I have written a whole new campaign! “One of our Spies is Missing” which may prove to be a little tougher than what we have become used to
My only gripe with SB is at the moment there is not enough of it, I hope Joe follows up with some more content!

[Grumpy Gnome]

I hear you mate and I am glad you like it.

It was never my intent to try to ruin anyone’s enjoyment.

It just is not for me in its current state and I find comments like…

“ I think you can only expect so much historical accuracy and realism in a game that has trolls, vampires, swivel guns, pixies etc. Nit-picking about ranges and effects of various weapons, quibbles about character classes (no voltigeur!) seems somewhat superfluous in a game where your best weapon might be a bag of salt or a carved leg bone or a piece of wood with a sigil on it. It’s an easy enough matter to write your own house rules or tweak a factor or two.”

… to be problematic.

1) Some historical references, context, physics etc with supernatural elements helps suspension of disbelief for me. I do not expect pure simulation however I would like more simulation than is currently in the mix.

2) Nit-picking? I do not think it is nit-picking to expect weapons in a combat focused game to have mechanics that reflect the historical characteristics of those weapons. Flintlock weapons and warfare have a certain flavor that I find lacking in the Silver Bayonet as it currently stands.

3) Character classes being present or not, balanced or not, are not superfluous conversations otherwise any time you add fantasy or fictional elements to anything then “anything goes” and again my suspension of disbelief goes too. Now, you may be fine with that but I do not like terms like “nit picking” and “superfluous” being brought into the conversation.

4) Of course I can write house rules. I can write my own game if I want to. I had hoped to avoid doing either.

All that aside, and I hope I misread the tone in your post as I know internet conversations are challenging to get exactly right, you make some valid points agree with.

It is interesting to see some monsters break from a lot of common current fantasy tropes.

The game mechanics with the dice pools are interesting.

I do like to hear people are enjoying the game. I want it to do well and for Joe to make more books. I want North Star to keep making great Silver Bayonet miniatures.

I just feel, as you also pointed out, that the game feels like it was not quite ready.

It is not that I expect everyone to agree with my opinion or my observations. I have no problem debating differences but it is a bit irritating to be told I am nit-picking when I want some game mechanics to reflect certain physics.

[Wilgut Spleens]

Hey Rick! Sory mate, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers! To be honest I didn't read the original post, just probably about the last few pages and my comments refer to those!. And I have no intention of having a"tone " in my post . I am just writing an enthusiastic opinion of a game which is really good fun and works well. I would hope any implied tone would be one of psoitivity for a great game. It's certainly not meant to be antagonistic. I too had some doubts, but , really , you should play it and then you have a valid case for any criticism. I did notice a couple of posts here from people who really do not understand the game at all offering ideas for changing rules and capabilities of weapons which i find extraordinariy when they haven't even played the game as it stands. One comment about increasing the range of rifles to 36" seems particualry strange since the board is only 30" across! However, I write with goodwill and just want tp push the positive as someone who has played the game.I think, knowing a bit about you and your gaming style, that you would absolutely love this game and I would encourage you to give it  a go. Like all narrative games, you tend to get out what you put in. I will write a full review of the game in a blog as soon as I can get some pics done (Long Covid continues to be aproblem and I haven't had the steength to get into the attic where I keep everything!)

[War Monkey]

I haven't played a game as of yet, I'm still waiting to additional figures to come in the mail. In the meanwhile, I am working on terrain. I am also currently working on sculping my idea of Revenants. I have read the rules a couple of times and I am very excited to play. I am hoping that there will be more solo scenarios.

[Grumpy Gnome]

Fair enough mate, as I said I hoped that I was wrong.

I have dabbled enough with the game solo at this stage to feel that my first impressions have not changed. It has some good aspects. It needs more development but it is on the right track in several regards.

Sorry to hear the Long Covid is still bothering you. I hope it finally fades away and you get all of your physical energy back. You clearly still have your energetic gaming enthusiasm!

[Wilgut Spleens]

Fair enough! I have not played it solo yet so I may change my opinion. I want get all the figures and terrain together first so I can create an immersive experience for myself. I have written a new campaign for it that I think will be much tougher than the existing game, I can send you a copy by email if you are interested in play testing it. It will take little work to make it suitable for solo play. We have changed a few rules. The incidents and encounters happen too rarely so for us they occur on any double. I've created some new monsters and attributes too.

I am much better thanks for asking, went through a real rough patch towards the end of last year, didn't think I would make it to Christmas, but therapy is helping and I get stronger every week. It's actually easier to get to the club to play than it is to get into my war room!

[craigjonwoodfield]

I, for one, appreciate your commentary Grumpy Gnome (perhaps because we are of a similar age?), and it has certainly swayed me on this particular game. I shall wait and see.

It's hard to criticize games and games designers without coming across as churlish. It's a relatively small community and most of the designers seem to be thoroughly decent folks. But criticism is necessary, and counteracts the content of the likes of WI, where nary a critical word seems to be published, even for some very sub-standard efforts in recent years.

My observations of this author's output is that it combines the wonderful and mediocre in almost equal measure. Perhaps it is a time pressure thing.

[Grumpy Gnome]

I, for one, appreciate your commentary Grumpy Gnome (perhaps because we are of a similar age?), and it has certainly swayed me on this particular game. I shall wait and see.

It's hard to criticize games and games designers without coming across as churlish. It's a relatively small community and most of the designers seem to be thoroughly decent folks. But criticism is necessary, and counteracts the content of the likes of WI, where nary a critical word seems to be published, even for some very sub-standard efforts in recent years.

My observations of this author's output is that it combines the wonderful and mediocre in almost equal measure. Perhaps it is a time pressure thing.

Cheers mate, I appreciate hearing that. I certainly do not wish to appear churlish but I can see where some folks may see it that way. I am thankful for what Joe has brought into the world. Some things just work better for me than others and since I have been promoting this project in particular for a long time I wanted to give folks my honest opinion.

Nothing I have seen so far has caused me to rethink my views on this game but I am glad to hear so many are enjoying it. As it is, Mrs. GG and I very much enjoyed three Frostgrave games last month for my birthday.