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Author Topic: A Doomed Pretenders Project - (03/01, Finished Irish Cavalry Unit)  (Read 19085 times)

Offline Tonhel

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A great unit!

Offline MaleGriffin

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Great conversion and fantastic looking troops!
Hoc quoque transibit
Sanguinem sistit semper

Offline HappyChappy439

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Thanks for the kind words everyone! I'm glad they've turned out ok!

Offline Cyrus1

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Very inspiring!

Offline Charlie_

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They turned out more than ok! That really is an impressive pair of conversions, very effective.

Offline Stuart

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Excellent conversion work there, an ambitious build which has really worked well. A fitting piece for a commander.

Offline Emir of Askaristan

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Just stumbled on this thread as I've been painting my own Irish /Scots.

That command figure is a real work of art and the other pics are inspirational.

Thanks for sharing these!

Offline Dargonsploof

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The earl looks fantastic very nice conversion and that gaelic attire website is very interesting.

Offline glenning

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Looking great - love the mounted conversions!

I'm at the same crossroads to be honest - wait for the since 2018 rumoured Perry ones or convert some of my own. Atm I'm planning to use Footsore's Dark Ages cavalry as a base but I'm not sure. I guess some of the Perry mounted crusaders could be use as a base for more 'heavy' cavalry with some Galloglass headswaps, of course.

Anyway, very inspiring stuff!

Offline HappyChappy439

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Re: A Doomed Pretenders Project - (03/01, Finished Irish Cavalry Unit)
« Reply #84 on: January 03, 2023, 07:51:26 AM »
Hi again, and Happy New Year!

Looking great - love the mounted conversions!

I'm at the same crossroads to be honest - wait for the since 2018 rumoured Perry ones or convert some of my own. Atm I'm planning to use Footsore's Dark Ages cavalry as a base but I'm not sure. I guess some of the Perry mounted crusaders could be use as a base for more 'heavy' cavalry with some Galloglass headswaps, of course.

Anyway, very inspiring stuff!

Thanks, and funny you should mention that with the Perry crusaders!  lol

I've finally got round to putting together a full unit of Irish cavalry and put a post about it on the blog! https://happy-chappy-miniatures.blogspot.com/2023/01/late-medievalrenaissance-irish-cavalry.html



As with the command base, unfortunately it's pretty difficult to find figures to actually represent the Irish cavalry of the 15th and 16th centuries, so that meant it was time to go to the conversion table to put some together!

This post by Oli has been an absolute lifesaver in terms of the research involved and for design ideas, so I highly recommend checking it out! http://camisado1500s.blogspot.com/2018/02/irish-chieftan-and-noble-cavalry.html

Based on Oli's post, I decided to use two main visual references when planning out the figures, The Image of Irelande and the Book of the Burkes. In particular, plate 9 of The Image of Irelande shows a fight between Irish cavalry and their English counterparts:



This image has a few interesting features, where some of the Irish cavalry have some unusual segmented helmets, and almost all of them have large round shields, but they're being worn either on their chests or tied to their backs. The English cavalry in the same illustration also have their shields tied to their chests, so this might just be artistic license by the artist though

In the Book of the Burkes, there's also a helpful illustration of an Anglo-Irish cavalryman (which Oli also cites). This one is slightly different to the ones in The Image of Irelande where the cavalryman has a long shirt which extends past his mail, and a pointed bascinet-style helmet



According to Seán Ó Domhnaill in Warfare in Sixteenth-Century Ireland, the Irish horse "were armed with headpeaces, shirtes of mayle or jackes, a sword, a skayne (a short-sword) and a speare."  Ó Domhnaill also confirms that the Irish cavalry did not use stirrups, used a unique type of saddle, and held their spears overarm to thrust. This supports the illustrations in the other sources, so I thought that gave a solid foundation to go from!

So with that in mind, I needed to find figures which:
  • (Mostly) had period-appropriate mail shirts
  • Had overarm poses for their spears
  • Could scale visually with the Perry War of the Roses range

In the end I settled on the Perry Norman sculpts, to make sure they scaled correctly, and thankfully they had a pack of overarm spear users too! Once that was settled, I trimmed down their mail shirts to be much shorter, in line with other 15th/16th century designs, and swapped their heads for Perry Irish ones





This base had a figure I based explicitly on the illustration in The Book of the Burkes, with the long white shirt, red leggings and pointed bascinet



And finally I wanted to have a go sculpting one of those odd segmented helmets on one of the figures, so I added one to the final base here



And finally here's a few pictures of the whole bunch together





Hopefully they've turned out ok! I got a lightbox for Christmas so I've been trying that out for the photos!  lol

Offline OB

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Re: A Doomed Pretenders Project - (03/01, Finished Irish Cavalry Unit)
« Reply #85 on: January 03, 2023, 10:17:32 AM »
They look great altogether.  The best I have ever seen in fact.  I think you have set the standard!

The lad from the Book of the Burkes shows a Cotun/Aketon/Gambeson under his mail rather than a shirt.  They were sometimes decorated as shown.

As far as I know wearing shields on the chest/back was a real practice rather than an artistic convention.

The "skayne" was a long knife rather than a short sword.  Unusually for Ireland it emphasised the point rather than the edge.  It was popular with all Irish military men.  I'd say it was designed to cope with plate armour at very close quarters.  Later in the period Irish pike men threw them at the conclusion of a successful engagement.

Offline HappyChappy439

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Re: A Doomed Pretenders Project - (03/01, Finished Irish Cavalry Unit)
« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2023, 10:33:32 AM »
They look great altogether.  The best I have ever seen in fact.  I think you have set the standard!

The lad from the Book of the Burkes shows a Cotun/Aketon/Gambeson under his mail rather than a shirt.  They were sometimes decorated as shown.

As far as I know wearing shields on the chest/back was a real practice rather than an artistic convention.

The "skayne" was a long knife rather than a short sword.  Unusually for Ireland it emphasised the point rather than the edge.  It was popular with all Irish military men.  I'd say it was designed to cope with plate armour at very close quarters.  Later in the period Irish pike men threw them at the conclusion of a successful engagement.

Thanks for the kind words! And that's some really interesting information too! Thanks for the clarification!

Online Atheling

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Re: A Doomed Pretenders Project - (03/01, Finished Irish Cavalry Unit)
« Reply #87 on: January 03, 2023, 11:35:58 AM »
Fab stuff Happy. Great idea to do the head swaps!  :-*

Offline commissarmoody

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Re: A Doomed Pretenders Project - (03/01, Finished Irish Cavalry Unit)
« Reply #88 on: January 03, 2023, 01:54:45 PM »
Lots of useful information and great looking figs/conversion.  :D
"Peace" is that brief, glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading.

- Anonymous

Offline commissarmoody

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Re: A Doomed Pretenders Project - (03/01, Finished Irish Cavalry Unit)
« Reply #89 on: January 03, 2023, 10:46:46 PM »
When you say Norman's, I taken it you are referring to the crusader range correct?

 

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