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Author Topic: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav-Attack Vehicle WIP3  (Read 2983 times)

Offline Daeothar

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - First squad done!
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2022, 09:22:12 PM »
Thanks all, guys; your replies are much appreciated :)

@ Storm Wolf: 3rd ed is my personal favourite of all editions. Mostly because that's when I actually started playing 40K actively. I consider 4th to be a refinement of 3rd, with all additional Chapter Approved and Index Astartes articles hardbaked into the basic rules. I have several 3rd/4th ed armies myself.

@ Mr Tought Guy: I already have 2 Space Marine armies where I've used the Painting Guide rank system, which I why I decided to go with the stripes this time.

However, the WD98 article only mentions the Tutor squads sent out to assist other Imperials. I've created some head canon where those markings are only used for those Tutor squads, and regular rank markings are according to those in the Rogue Trader book, in combination with the special markings, such as veteran, dedication, seeking glorious death, etc, are taken from the ubiquous little red booklet.

I find the shoulderpads a bit empty right now though, so I might go for weapon badges after all. Problem is, not all weapons are included in the RT illustration, and there's no further mention of them anywhere (at least as far as I could find). So I'll have to invent several myself.

That's not too arduous though, and I will probably make them into tiny little waterslide transfers, to make my life a little easier.

Also, I feel some squad numbering ought to be in order, as right now, apart from the sergeant (once he gets his banner), no squad identification is possible.

@ Blackwolf: That always is an option, yes lol

@ Elbows: I absolutely feel you there; the test annex instructor chapter take on them was pretty sweet. I suppose I can always still detach a squad for that purpose. In this regard they were a bit like the Legion of the Damned, who you could also add to an existing force with a single squad.

Personally, I always loved the whole testbed platform aspect of the fluff. They're basically asking for all kind of esotheric tech to fieldtest.

And even though I must regretfully admit to never have actually played Rogue Trader, I've read all the books, so I can see that the abilities those technologies granted were pretty cool 8)
Miniatures you say? Well I too, like to live dangerously...
Everybody has a plan, until they get punched in the face - Mike Tyson

Offline Daeothar

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - First squad done!
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2022, 08:12:07 AM »
As a teaser, because I could no longer contain myself after last night's succesful printing of my first ever 3D design, here are all the components required for the first of my Mentor Legion vehicles.

A 100 internets for the first who can identify the vehicle...  :D


Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - First squad done!
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2022, 10:56:31 AM »
As a teaser, because I could no longer contain myself after last night's succesful printing of my first ever 3D design, here are all the components required for the first of my Mentor Legion vehicles.

A 100 internets for the first who can identify the vehicle...  :D
Well, I mean, if you're going to make the deodorant hover tank, you're going to need two plastic spoons as well...  ::)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 10:59:07 AM by Major_Gilbear »

Offline Daeothar

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - WIP Vehicle
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2022, 11:13:33 AM »
You're obviously correct. I suppose it wasn't too much of a challenge, considering the topic of the thread anyway  lol

And they're on their way. I found the exact double medicine spoon required, but they are apparently only sold in the UK. So I had to shell out for 5 of them to be shipped over here...  ::)

For some reason I found myself having the sudden urge to recreate Rick Priestley's Grav Attack vehicle last October. And I not only wanted to make one, I wanted to do a tribute to the original by replicating it.

There are plenty of really nice examples of vehicles inspired by the original, but none that faithfully reproduce it. Now, I'd like to state beforehand that the original was meant to inspire, and was never intended to be an actual standard. I believe mr. Priestley wanted to show what could be done with a bit of inspiration (and anti-transpiration, obviously) in a time when GW didn't have any vehicles in their product line, and didn't have the capacity to either.

But this thing has become such an icon of the Rogue Trader era, that I thought an actual tribute to the original was in order.

So the first thing I did was pour over the few available pictures of the vehicle, to try and identify each and every part. I pretty soon identified that most of the parts used were actually from a Zoids kit called the Guysack (yeah; I know...  lol ). But the launcher and other small boxy part were a bit more of a challenge to locate.

Eventually I found that they came from a larger Zoids kit, called a Redhorn. And while searching for the required parts, I came across a local Zoids collector who happened to have a huge bitsbox, and he was able to sell me everything I was still missing (I had, in the meantime already bought me a broken copy of that Guysack kit).

So that was the Zoids bits sorted, but the deodorant bottle was more of a challenge. Preferences have changed and most brands have long since changed over to either spray cans or  roller type dispensers. The stick variant has gone completely out of fashion.

But then I discovered that there is a whole community of people who make their own deodorant. Who knew? And Amazon actually offers batches of 10 or more empty deodorant stick containers! So I found the correctly shaped ones and ordered them.

Big disappointment though when they arrived; they were only 8cm tall, so only a little of half the required length. They did not completely go to waste though, since the wheel on the bottom came in handy later on, and my wife, having heard of the whole DIY deodorant scene is now curious to see how that works, so she has claimed dibs on the remaining bottles  :D

So, seeing that it was nigh on impossible to find the correctly shaped bottle, I suddenly realized: I recently got a resin 3D printer, so why not print one instead?

But to accomplish that, I would need to first learn how to 3D draw. Now, I have done some work with Sketchup in the past, painstakingly recreating a room at work (long story; let's just say that it was required at the time), but I also realized that it was not the perfect tool for what I wanted.

So a digital artist friend of mine suggested to go with Blender. It's free and almost an industry standard. But that learning curve...  :o

I realized that if I wanted to get the result I was after within a reasonable timeframe, I'd need something simpler. So I went back to the web based free Sketchup version and started to tinker around with that.

In the end, the whole bottle is just a couple of really basic geometric shapes, and I managed to get it all done, in two parts, in only two afternoons of work. The most difficult part was the opening for the bottom wheel and the curved corners at the top (or front of course).

The entire model was built with 2mm thick walls, which had to be done manually because of the simplicity of the application. But it worked.

Sort of.

Because somewhere in the process of converting the proprietary Sketchup files to STL format (done by exporting the files to STL from Sketchup), or the slicing process in Chitubox, almost the entire hollowed sections of the shapes were changed into solid blocks. Something I only noticed when checking on the actual printing.

Not a big problem, since it's not visible on the outside. It does add quite a bit of weight to the model though.

Also, the bottom and top surfaces were originally closed off, and there was a hole for the wheel axle to fit through on the bottom. None of those features transfered to the physical print though. Also, a strange recess appeared on the front part (on both top and bottom sides). It's just a shallow indent that was not in the orginal design at all (see picture in my previous post).



But I'm not an expert on these things by far, so I wouldn't know how all of these things came to be.

One feature that did survive is the recesses I put in to accomodate two magnets in the bottom to meet up with a flying stand. However, with the added weight, it remains to be seen if the envisioned magnets will be up to the task now.

And yes; the curved surfaces are facetted. This is due to the limitations of Sketchup and the amount of polygons it can add (maybe the paid version could; I don't know). But I anticipated this and added some extra thickness to the walls to accomodate sanding the curves smooth.

Because in the end, I just wanted a replica of the original deodorant stick; everything else would have been manual work anyway. Would I have been able to source the original sticks, I would have gone with those. The 3D print is simply there to fill in a gap in the parts list that appeared impossible to fill.

I'm aware that the print is nowhere near perfect, but it'll probably work for my purposes.

Now I'll print another pair of these, because I had been planning two vehicles (I also have the parts for two), so when the medicine spoons arrive, I'll have everything required to create two iconic Grav Attack vehicles, that'll count as Razorbacks in this army :)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 11:58:46 AM by Daeothar »

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - WIP Vehicle
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2022, 11:29:17 AM »
If it makes you feel any better, I saw somebody on eBay a few months ago trying to sell one for a ridiculous amount of money, and somebody else who was selling the components to make one yourself for not much less.

As an aside, it tickled me to see that the recent/current FW Custodes tank is an obvious nod to that original home-made Grav Attack Tank.  :P

Offline zemjw

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav Attack Vehicle WIP
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2022, 01:41:16 PM »
There are still some stick deodrants out there. Gillette Endurance is one such - link

They're 65mm wide, 25mm deep and 110mm tall. The end cap is shaped differently, though.

I always meant to make one, so curious to see how this turns out.

Offline Daeothar

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav Attack Vehicle WIP
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2022, 02:29:37 PM »
There are still some stick deodrants out there. Gillette Endurance is one such - link

They're 65mm wide, 25mm deep and 110mm tall. The end cap is shaped differently, though.

I always meant to make one, so curious to see how this turns out.

Cheers.

And yes; I did find several. But in order to make a faithful representation, exactly the same (or nearly exactly the same) bottle is required.

The ones I did find were all off in size, dimensions or shape. Loads had curved surfaces, while I was looking for flat sizes instead. Or the tops were flat instead of rounded. None matched the shape as used by mr. Priestley.

It absolutely was the style of the era, and it changed over the years. I asked around at a renowned pharmacy here, and the woman knew exactly what I meant. They used to carry them too. About 30 years ago...

And since I'm a stickler for detail (which one has to be if one wants to build a replica after all), it was either up to months of searching and loads of luck, or to have a go at it myself. So I went for the 3D challenge instead  :)

Offline OSHIROmodels

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav-Attack Vehicle WIP
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2022, 04:05:27 PM »
Old school with a modern twist. I like it  8)

Offline llisos

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav-Attack Vehicle WIP
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2022, 08:04:22 AM »

You will be the envy of many of us who write here.

Those of us who like oldhammer have always wanted to build a grav tank exactly like Rick Priestley's.

Congratulations!

Offline YPU

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav-Attack Vehicle WIP
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2022, 09:24:12 AM »
Daeothar has a resin printer now? oh no what madness this way lies.

I love that your using it to recreate a classic scratch build to replace missing parts, that's just an absolute perfect marriage of new and traditional there.
3d designer, sculptor and printer, at your service!



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Offline Daeothar

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav-Attack Vehicle WIP
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2022, 10:52:32 AM »
Thanks guys :)

Daeothar has a resin printer now? oh no what madness this way lies.
lol Oh, you don't know half of it :D

BUt I'm only a well meaning absolute beginner; I bow down to your 3D skills; I've got a long way to go before I can create stuff even half as good as yours...

I've wet-sanded the two hull halves to get rid of the polygons and this worked perfectly. It's hell on standard sanding paper though, so halfway I switched over to belt-sander paper, and that's rugged as F, so I'll use that from the start next time.

Added advantage is that the whole shape has been keyed for primer at the same time.

Funny though how back in the day Rick Priestley did his utmost best to get rid of the smoothness of the surface of his bottle by rought sanding it and adding VIM to his basecoat to add more texture, while I'm trying to get it as smooth as possible lol

I will be going over it with a fine grit sandpaper later on (also wet, obviously), to get rid of the obvious sanding traces.

Now I'm repairing some of the areas where the print went off from the design. I mentioned the solid blocks inside, which will at least give me a good base to attach everything to.

But my design originally contained closed off walls on the front and rear surfaces as well (for the rear hull) and a closed off rear surface for the front portion.

The idea was to sand the front wall of the rear portion to the correct angle (the original has the front sloped downwards ever so slightly. It took a second good look at the available pictures to realize this, and of course I need to incorporate this in my replica).

But since the front is now open, I needed to improvise.

I first sanded the remaining edges at the correct angle, and then added a plasticard spacer by layering pieces until I was the correct hight. I then superglued this in place.

This will give a solid surface for the glue to take when attaching the front. However; I will also be pinning both pieces together, right through that spacer, into the solid resin for added strength.



I then turned my attention to the rear.

This was supposed to be closed off too, as you can see in the Sketchup picture up in the thread. So I made a couple of filler pieces, which will be supported by the solid resin block in the center of the hull. I even made it so the pieces will be slightly recessed, just like I designed them :)



Finally, I have filled in the two mysterious slots in the nose section (top and bottom) with some strips of plasticard. They've been textured by scribing a diamond pattern in them, so they will give more purchase for the Apoxy Sculpt I will be using to fill the gaps and make everything as smooth as intended.

Then there is a repair required on the side of the nose. This occurred when I Used too much force in the wrong place when prying the print off the build plate. The resin was still uncured and soft, and therefore gave in when I tried to lever the print off ::)

Another lesson learned, that...

Anyway; I'll be using Apoxy Sculpt here as well, but to limit the amount of material required, I put in a simple plasticard filler base.

.

That's it for now, but stay tuned for more progress... :)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2022, 10:54:16 AM by Daeothar »

Offline YPU

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav-Attack Vehicle WIP
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2022, 11:30:06 AM »
Thanks guys :)
lol Oh, you don't know half of it :D

BUt I'm only a well meaning absolute beginner; I bow down to your 3D skills; I've got a long way to go before I can create stuff even half as good as yours...


Oh the fun of understanding the weird idiosyncrasies of your cad program of choice, cause they never work the way you want them to. I think I've heard people say they design stuff in ketchup at x10 size so you get a finer mesh output, and then shrink it in the slicing software so you have less visible polygons to sand off.

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav-Attack Vehicle WIP2
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2022, 01:11:52 PM »
Not to diminish your efforts or learning, but out of curiosity I had a quick search for "stick deodorants for men", and here in the UK at least they still seem to sell that kind of product.
Mitchum Advanced Powder Fresh Anti-Perspirant Deodorant Stick is just about a perfect match, for anybody else who might fancy making one, and they seem to retail around £3.5-5.0 each. There are other brands too, some of which have slight contours or textured sections that would probably make the final vehicle a bit more interesting.

Anyway, just thought I'd mention it for interest. :)

Offline Daeothar

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav-Attack Vehicle WIP2
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2022, 02:37:57 PM »
Major, thanks for looking, but I have to disagree there  :)

Yes; there are still sticks being sold, even though the majority of non-spray on deodorant is rollers these days. I did find plenty of them, but all the shapes I've encountered to date (including the ones you pointed out) are off.

The Mitchum ones you found for instance do not have flat sides, but rather curved surfaces. And I've seen people make interesting fascilisms of the original with them, but exactly the same they're not.

It's like I said; the flat shape as used in the original was a product of its time, and taste and design language have changed over the three decades since then.

And just because I can be absolutely analy retentive when it comes to details at times, it irked me that I could not source the exact shape anymore, while I was attempting to make an exact replica of the original. And that's why I went for the designing and printing option.

Which is proving to be an interesting learning experience as well  :D

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Rogue Trader Mentor Legion - Grav-Attack Vehicle WIP2
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2022, 03:03:45 PM »
Ah, you mean these an elliptical oval cross-section, rather than a round-ended flat oval? I see - I couldn't tell that from the images of the products I found, but I'll take your word for it.
Also, nothing wrong with being fastidious!  ;)

 

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