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Author Topic: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?  (Read 1915 times)

Offline NotifyGrout

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2022, 08:51:37 PM »
I still haven't played Kings of War 3rd, but I know 1st and 2nd, and it's a fast-playing, simple-but-tactical game. The one thing that confuses a lot of people is the chess-like nature of movement; flank and rear attacks get double or triple the normal dice.

A friend of mine wants to get Oathmark on the table badly. I have heard good things but haven't gotten to try it yet.

If you want something really different, Saga: Age of Magic might be worth a look. The only downside is that you'll have to either buy special dice or have conversion tables handy (they are provided in the books). Warlords of Erehwon is another one I want to try but haven't gotten to yet- it has a similar activation mechanic to Bolt Action.

I was also looking at Three Plains, but it seems like it's really detailed, and I don't know if I have the patience for something that complex. 4 hours for a normal-sized game is way too long for me; considering that I once participated in a 6 players per side Kings of War mega-battle that took that amount of time, I was really turned off by that statement.

I've recently been informed of Warhammer Renaissance, if you want to see what a community-balanced take on 5th Edition Warhammer looks like. They have a Facebook group.

There's also The Ninth Age, which started as a continuation of 8th Edition but from what little I've seen of it, it's turned into its own game.

Lastly, Order on the BoardGameGeek website has a pretty comprehensive list of mass battle fantasy games that he has reviewed. Not sure if your tastes will line up with his, but I think it's worth a read: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/275890/fantasy-mass-battle-miniature-wargames

Offline Warren Abox

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2022, 01:00:05 AM »
You might give good old-fashioned Chainmail a try.  The rules lack modern sensibilities, with a decidedly primitive layout and organization, and minimalist artwork. However, there are a number of good videos on YouTube that will walk you through, and help you learn as you go.

Good evening includes a fairly comprehensive engine for running sieges. That engine is complete with points cost for various elements of a castle under siege. I have not yet worked up to trying it myself, but I can tell you the game flows really well once you piece it all together. I'm around rules can be a bit clunky, being fairly math heavy.

And if you poke around you should be able to find a PDF of them online for cheap.

Offline Cat

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2022, 01:16:16 AM »
You might give good old-fashioned Chainmail a try. 

Good evening includes a fairly comprehensive engine for running sieges. That engine is complete with points cost for various elements of a castle under siege. I have not yet worked up to trying it myself, but I can tell you the game flows really well once you piece it all together. I'm around rules can be a bit clunky, being fairly math heavy.

Ah, I forgot that included siege rules (never used them); for a field battle, it was certainly less clunky than WRG 6th Edition!

Offline tin shed gamer

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2022, 09:21:00 AM »
Cheers everyone, that's a lot more to look into than I bargained for. lol
I've still a couple of weeks to mull over everyone's Ideas before Vapnartak.  As I mentioned at the start I think I've a second set of rules floating about the workshop. It's bugging the life out of me what they are. So while the heater warms the place up enough to start work .I'm going to find the damned things.Im under no illusions if I've forgotten what they are and where they are. I'm definitely not going to have a eureka moment and think these are the rules for me.  ::)
 

Offline Sir_Theo

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2022, 09:25:35 AM »
Some really.good suggestions here. I wholeheartedly agree with what everyone says about KoW- very clean system, it's great having all the army lists in the main book (well and the Uncharted Empires supplement) and it let's you have pretty big games in a pretty reasonable length of time BUT it is quite gamey, it's clearly devised with tournament play in mind.

If you like rulebooks the 3rd edition Hardback book is also quite lovely. Great maps.

If you can hunt down a copy (as I believe it is out of print) the Jake Thornton ruleset he did for Foundry 'God of Battles' had some great ideas.

Correction to my post. God of Battles is still available on Casting Room miniatures pages on the Foundry website. Its currently on sale.

https://www.castingroomminiatures.com/collections/god-of-battles/products/god-of-battles-by-jake-thornton

Offline tin shed gamer

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2022, 09:43:18 AM »
Cheers Theo,
If Foundry are at York I'll have a word.

Slightly embarrassing.
Turns out the reason it was bugging me some much. Was because they were in plain sight. The compressor has been sat on them for years .Right next to the plug socket for the heater!
Does anyone remember them ? As turns out I've had them thirty year's. I don't think I ever gave them more than a glance .


Offline Sir_Theo

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2022, 09:59:24 AM »
Lovely! never played them unfortunately.

Love me some Gary Chalk art, pure nostalgia after too many hours playing Hero quest and reading the Lone Wolf books as a kid.

Offline tin shed gamer

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2022, 10:23:50 AM »
I think I probably bought them for the same reason. It turns out I own a copy of Saga too.Its still in it's bag and propping up the compressor as well. I'll have to get round to making  a proper stand otherwise I'll get back into a project and prop the thing up again.

Offline AdmiralAndy

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2022, 10:59:01 AM »
Also on the list of consider not seen mentioned.

Warlords of Erewhon also seems to be a successful range it seems to be the love child of WFB and Bolt Action.

I remember having bought those cheap Gary Chalk rules, and selling them again some years ago.

Seeing that old Wargame I did a google, it makes use of D100 and auto casualties, simultaneous order system, so pretty heavy compared to a igo-ugo buckets of d6 and reviews seem to be a nice idea badly done. I probably switched off with the D100 mechanic didn't engage me. Reminds me of some very stodgy mid 80s medieval wargames in my mid teens, I wasn't keen on repeating that experience.


Also tripped over a game called Fantasy Warriors when googling, although that also seems a lacklustre version of WFB.

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2022, 11:49:24 AM »
Yeah, the Gary Chalk Warlord book is:

1) A stone-cold classic that's worth it for it's own sake

and

2) Far denser to play than WHFB3E!  o_o

I would also point out that there's not too many square-based rank-n-flank games on the market for fantasy, and several of the games suggested here are more like AoS in terms of model movement/placement (i.e., "blobs" of models rather than neat rectangles).

The more I look at your opening post, and the more I think about it, the more I think WHFB6E is what you're looking for. It's biggest advantages for you are:

1) It is still "detailed" in that GW way where most units have a special rule or ability beyond their basic statline and equipment.

2) You still have customisable heroes with cool magic items.

3) You can do big games, small games, skirmish, or sieges with it.

4) It is a traditional rank-n-flank game.

5) It is both recent and popular enough that many people not only still play it, but even still hold 6E tournaments too. This also many of the books are still available second-hand in large numbers for reasonably cheap.

6) It's Warhammer, so all your models are a perfect fit, even down to basing size. There's also a working familiarity in terms of what you expect units to do and how they will perform.

7) Despite all the above, it is a hugely cleaned up and streamlined set of rules compared to 3E, without losing the elements that make the game feel like Warhammer. That means a decent-sized game takes an afternoon to play, and not a whole weekend.

Online jon_1066

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2022, 12:17:22 PM »
Fantasy Warriors had some pretty neat ideas.  Itís available as a free pdf I think from Mirliton who have the old Grenadier sculpts.  The crux of the game is the order system: units are ordered to hold, attack or manouver.  The general has to order a unit to do anything different.  It has a brutal cascading morale system as well so battles arenít too long as one side will generally run away relatively quickly!

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2022, 12:31:00 PM »
Fantasy Warriors had some pretty neat ideas.  Itís available as a free pdf I think from Mirliton who have the old Grenadier sculpts.
Is it? Hmm, good to know, thank you - I'll have to investigate this evening.  :)

It has a brutal cascading morale system as well so battles arenít too long as one side will generally run away relatively quickly!
Ah, old game design!  8)

Online jon_1066

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2022, 12:58:47 PM »
...
Ah, old game design!  8)

Also it could be argued a better model for medieval and ancient style battles.  Generally they weren't fought until one side had killed most of the other but one side would generally up sticks and leg it long before half of them had been murdered.  In fact most of the slaughter would then occur after that break as troops give chase against fleeing men.

Early Warhammer had a tendency to degenerate into last man standing.  I remember one notable battle where we simply fielded every single model we owned.  it ended with two halfings facing a single orc!

Offline DivisMal

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2022, 04:10:32 PM »
Fantasy Warriors was my first tabletop love. I still consider it a pretty good game. The order and morale system make it stand out drom the mass of other games.
It had also very original rules for undead.
I didnít like how they treated large models (saving throws!) and you could definitely cause overkill the system with cheesy combinations of heroes, priests amd giant monsters.

If a new edition somehow reformed the saving throws (giants had 3+ on 2d6 meant that such a model might die first turn or plow theough your enemyĎs whole army) and polished some other mechanisms (i donít like individual casualty removal for instance), it could be a very good alternative on the market.

Offline manic _miner

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Re: Should I stick with WFB 3rd edition.Or look for pastures new ?
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2022, 06:12:43 PM »
 I have so many different rule books from the many Years of being in the hobby and only played the one Fantasy,which was the Lord of the Rings rules that GW did after the films release.Not played it since either.

 Now started on Conquest the last argument of Kings by Para Bellum.The game has two versions.The mass battle one with figures on square stands (four infantry to a stand,cavalry/brutes and monsters one to a stand. First Blood skirmish one where figures are loose (all miniatures in the game come with round bases then Stands to play the larger scale game). The game uses character and unit cards for playing which you build a deck out of and place upside down on the table and draw from the top.So you have to plan on what you want to do first.An interesting idea which i think works well.Also the game starts with no models on the table.Both players have to roll to see if thier units come on the board.Starting with light units,next turn you can try to bring on the other light units which did not make it and also to see if you can get any medium units.Turn three you get the chance to bring on heavy units.This also adds another good element to the game.Makes you plan your force a bit better with a good mix of unit types(light,medium and heavy).

 Had three games of the First Blood version and liked how it played.Nords was the faction i was playing which are Viking/Norse types.The Ice Jotnar is a fantastic model.There is even an army builder on the Para Bellum site.There are five factions out now with another due in March.Undead Roman types which look pretty good.Then there are two other factions which have been mentioned.

 The early plastic figures are not the best sculpting wise but the newer releases are getting better all of the time.Leader and character types are mostly in resin and is very well detailed and clean.

 You can check-out the rules for free on the link :- https://www.para-bellum.com/rules-and-faq/

 Warlord Games also have the Slaine game due out this Year.Always loved the comic stories and the miniatures that Fantasy Forge did many Years ago and Northstar now have.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2022, 10:14:16 PM by manic _miner »

 

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