Ancient Skirmish Rules

[markdienekes]

Hi, I was just wondering what people thought was a good ruleset for ancient skirmishes. Key things would be an advancement system/progression and a good number of factions. I am looking at SPQR at the moment, but am not sure. What are peoples opinions on the revised rules? What is Clash of Spears like? I've seen Gangs of Rome, is that any good?

Anyhow, thanks for your time!

[SJWi]

Hi, I would add “Saga” and Two Fat Lardies “Infamy” to your list of possibilities. “Gangs of Rome” is about gang warfare/streetbrawls, so if you want that go for it. It isn’t “skirmish” combat with regular troops. I have never played “Clash of Spears” or “SPQR” so can’t comment, but have played both Saga and Infamy. For the former you need to buy the core rules plus a period-specific background/army list book. Infamy very much focusses on the Roman vs North European Celts/Germans in the period say 50BC-50AD, albeit an expansion book for the Punic wars is imminent. Both Saga and Infamy play well.

 If you Google “Clash of Spears” you will find some blogs comparing and contrasting them with other rulesets.

[markdienekes]

Thanks for your reply. Clash does look good, but I'm worried it lacks the personality of building a character or improving the warband? (My regular gaming opponent isn't really interested in things that doesn't have progression for the warband as you fight battles).

Has anyone played it, or Mortal Gods? Is there any warband progression in them, or is it basically just building a small force with points and fighting?

Mortal Gods is really interesting me at the moment, and was wondering if anyone knew the list of playable factions. Can you play as Carthage, or Italic peoples of the period. I've seen a post with playable factions from 2019 but can't seem to find any rules for  them (as it looks like each faction has a set of cards for them, they don't sell any but a small selection.)

Thanks again for your time.

[SJWi]

Hi, from what I know Mortal Gods still only covers the Hellenic Period but now covers Persians and Thracians. If you want character progression and a campaign system you could look at Two Fat Lardies “Dux Britanniarum” set in 5/6th century AD Britain. Romano-British, Saxons, Irish and Picts to choose from. Plenty of figure choices with Gripping Beast, Footsore and Westwind in metal plus Gripping Beast and Wargames Atlantic plastics.

[markdienekes]

Thanks, I'll take a look at that one (a bit later for the period I like, but still ancient history!)

[SJWi]

Mark, fine. I am really scratching my head to think of skirmish rules that have the character development element you want. Two other "skirmish" sets are Osprey's "Men of Bronze"( Hoplite warfare) and "Wars of the Republic" ( Roman Republic) but from what I know both are just "battle" games.

[mellis1644]

Character development is going to be an issue for any ancient skirmish rules IMO - as thats really a false 'RPG' element added to most games. Peoples skills develop much more slowly than in games generally.

Clash of Spears and Saga are both good games but don't really have that.

You may want to look at the Too Fat Lardies Dux Brit rules (invading saxons vs romano-brits), as they do have force development and campaign system built into them.

[WillieB]

Hi, from what I know Mortal Gods still only covers the Hellenic Period but now covers Persians and Thracians. If you want character progression and a campaign system you could look at Two Fat Lardies “Dux Britanniarum” set in 5/6th century AD Britain. Romano-British, Saxons, Irish and Picts to choose from. Plenty of figure choices with Gripping Beast, Footsore and Westwind in metal plus Gripping Beast and Wargames Atlantic plastics.

In addition to the standard 5-6th Century rules there's also - amongst others-  a fan made variant for Troy.
Again a bit earlier than Carthage/Punic Wars.
Infamy, Infamy is great but the second book with the Punic wars stats isn't out yet.

[markdienekes]

Indeed, it does seem to be a problem. I wish I could persuade him to just try Clash of Spears or Mortal Gods, but he's fine with our homebrewed 4th/5th/6th/7th/8th/WAP Warhammer Fantasy Battle for games without advancement, and hasn't really got much interest in ancient history...

I've bought the SPQR Starter Set with revised rules as it has the campaign system and hero advancement. Perhaps this will make him more interested in the period. Thanks for all your suggestions!

[NickNascati]

Take a look at Song of Blades and Heroes, or One Hour Skirmish Wargames.  Both have active Facebook groups, and allow the sort of thing you are looking to do.

[Easy E]

I can confirm that Men of Bronze and Wars of the Republic is NOT what the OP is looking for. 

From the Opsrey line, Broken Legions is closer to what they want.  Here is my take on that....

https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-broken-legions-osprey-wargame.html

 

If you are interested in learning more about Clash of Spears, here is my review of it.....

https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2020/10/review-clash-of-spears-fighting-hedgehog.html

Hope that helps. 

[Brewis]

In the last year at our club (Bologna-Italy) we used to play both Saga and Clash of Spears both set in Punic Wars Period.
They are very good games for skirmish lovers and you can play them with about 40/50 miniatures (You need only one Character and 6 units for Saga, while 2-3 Leaders and 5-7 units are recommended for a 900 pts match in Clash).
Both have expansions for different historic period (Imperial and Caesar's wars are included in Clash expansion, Saga is oriented to Barbaric Invasions and various Medieval Age).
Both are not easy recommended to play solo even if it's available a little expansion for Clash about that.
Work in progress for other period both in Clash (Feudal Japan) or in Saga (fog about that at the moment even someone talk of Alexander The Great).
Somebody say that Clash is more historical oriented and similar to classical war-game even with very innovative mechanisms, Saga is intriguing and easier to learn.
Not a simple choice for you.
I believe Saga is fun and engaging, Clash is deeper and tactical.

[markdienekes]

I can confirm that Men of Bronze and Wars of the Republic is NOT what the OP is looking for. 

From the Opsrey line, Broken Legions is closer to what they want.  Here is my take on that....

https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2016/12/review-broken-legions-osprey-wargame.html

 

If you are interested in learning more about Clash of Spears, here is my review of it.....

https://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2020/10/review-clash-of-spears-fighting-hedgehog.html

Hope that helps.

Thanks, I've read both and they were enlightening reads. I've had an eye on Broken Legions for a while, but it is too small a skirmish game, though looks good fun (We already play the Grave series (Frost/Ghost/Star), Necromunda (classic old rules) and were looking for something with more figures, yet still plays quickly and has some advancement from battle to battle.
Actually, I'm very interested in both these rule sets (Men of Bronze and Wars of the Republic). Does it have any campaign rules, something to link the battles together? I guess we could come up with something if not... I have hundreds of ancient history books, mostly on the years dated between 500 BC to the death of Augustus being my favorite, broad time period, and what I've read about Wars of the Republic makes me really want to play it!

Thanks for the other suggestions, Nick and Brewis.
So many great game systems, so little time!

I've purchased the revised edition of SPQR for now. Coming from years of Warhammer Fantasy Battle, and skirmish gaming at gang levels, I feel this is the best option for my gaming buddy and I out of the above. Mortal Gods, however, is really peeking my interest, along with Wars of the Republic (for a larger game!).

[Easy E]

Wars of the Republic does have a basic campaign system, but nothing that fancy.  It is in the core rules. 

[frank xerox]

Try googling “age of blood “ - free internet rules, I’ve not played them but they’ve got a good bit of what you’re looking for progression wise. Might be a bit low in figure count and very much set in the Viking age, but  free if they’re still out there and the progression system seems easy to lift out and tack on to another rule set