Late 6th early 7th C Goths Aventine (Commercial)

[Aventine]

I have just uploaded the pack photos for our new Goth Cavalry. The extra photos are on the new store site

www.aventineminiatures.org






Cheers Keith
Aventine Miniatures

[Atheling]

Wonderful stuff Keith. 

Kudos to Adam for going the extra mile 

[WorkShy]

I like the look of the armoured goth spearmen and swordsmen.

You say they are late 6th or early 7th century. Why are they not compatible with a Roman Warlord's late 5th century force? I'm on the lookout for some more variation in sculpts for that era and these seem a possible addition.

[Aventine]

Designed to go with our Byzantine range thus suitable for that era. I did not design them so would be guessing at any differences over the 100 years or so. I will ask Adam his thoughts but I would imagine the helmets would have evolved.

Cheers
Keith

[Atheling]

I like the look of the armoured goth spearmen and swordsmen.

You say they are late 6th or early 7th century. Why are they not compatible with a Roman Warlord's late 5th century force? I'm on the lookout for some more variation in sculpts for that era and these seem a possible addition.

Obviously I can't speak for Adam but if I understand your question correctly you're asking why the Aventine Goths are not compatible with a Roman Warlord's late 5th century force which would in itself include large numbers of Gothic soldiers.

My ideas are:

The 6th or 7th CE Goths were much more like their Byzantine?Western Roman and Eastern Roman compatriots/enemies in dress and armours. The Gothic Kings had been occupying Italy since the late 500 AD. 

Given what I have outlined above, he question could also equally be affirmed as, why are they not compatible with a Gothic late 5th century force? This I think leads us back come back to the same concept, that of the changing of fashions, armours etc.

In other words, nothing it static and much is in flux over these centuries. As in modern times too.

[Blackwolf]

I’m sorry Workshy, the simple reason being stirrups

[Atheling]

I’m sorry Workshy, the simple reason being stirrups

I must have been having a (very) senior moment there as stirrups didn't cross my mind 

[WorkShy]

I’m sorry Workshy, the simple reason being stirrups

Ah must admit I did not notice the stirrups! Counts them out then. Thanks for that.
Back to the drawing board.

[Aventine]

Hi Workshy,

Stirrups are a matter of debate, we added them as is is an easy task to remove(file or a blade will do the job in seconds) and a far harder one to add them. If the stirrup was in Byzantine use then surely those in contact with them would have adopted them, the question as always is when and how wide spread their use.

Cheers
Keith

[Psychlic Bob]

I’m sorry Workshy, the simple reason being stirrups

This would place them around and after 550ce?
Makes them usable Equites Vandali or later Optimates (possibly Gepids as well)

[Atheling]

This would place them around and after 550ce?
Makes them usable Equites Vandali or later Optimates (possibly Gepids as well)

Spot on, though the Gepids were noted as being mostly unarmoured (though I doubt their nobility would have gone into battle sans armour!).

I believe Adam and Keith have some Vandals/Longbards in the pipeline too but I would check with them to make sure I have got that right.

[WorkShy]

Hi Workshy,
Stirrups are a matter of debate, we added them as is is an easy task to remove(file or a blade will do the job in seconds) and a far harder one to add them. If the stirrup was in Byzantine use then surely those in contact with them would have adopted them, the question as always is when and how wide spread their use.
Cheers
Keith

Having thought about this, removing the stirrups is definately an option. For a warlord force around say 450-500AD, they probably still work at a stretch (fashions clearly change but whatever). Frankly, I need more variation in models and poses and until Victrix come along with some late Roman cavalry (they will but not holding my breath on that one), nobody is now producing anything new for the late Roman era.

As as aside, I really like the fact you sell the riders discretely from the horses. Other manufacturers should do the same. Overall, I think you are producing the best metal minatures out there. Good detail with far less flash and mould lines that the likes of Footsore. Just wish I could use more of your Byzantine range.

[Atheling]

Good detail with far less flash and mould lines that the likes of Footsore.

Oh boy....... I bought a lot of Late Romans for The Analogue Hobbies Painting Challenge late last year and nearly every horse were pitted quite badly out 60 plus horses!

I wasn't a happy bunny at all. I had to fill in just about every horse with ProCreate putty! 

[WorkShy]

Oh boy....... I bought a lot of Late Romans for The Analogue Hobbies Painting Challenge late last year and nearly every horse were pitted quite badly out 60 plus horses!
I wasn't a happy bunny at all. I had to fill in just about every horse with ProCreate putty! 

I had a moan about my experience with buying Footsore minis on a topic in the General Sub-forum.

Ok so I'm back painting minis after 15-20 years out of the game. Overall bit disappointed with the metal minis in terms of detail but mainly quality control and service really

The worst example is Footsore. I really like what they produce and they paint very well. Nonetheless, many of the minis are are unusable. Multiple holes in the pewter, unbelievable amount of flash, broken legs on horses, mold lines you can't easily remove (over faces for example). If I buy a pack of 4 minis, nearly always 1 has major issue but in some cases it's been as bad as 3. Plus delivery times are daft. I've been waiting almost four weeks to get a small £100 order.

To be clear I really like their sculpts but when it takes as long to clean them up as to paint them, it's really off-putting.

Anyway this is off topic and I'll say no more!

[Atheling]

I had a moan about my experience with buying Footsore minis on a topic in the General Sub-forum.

Yep, Those Footsore castings created  a hell of a lot of unnecessary work. It added many hours onto each unit which was especially infuriating when I was prepping a couple of hundred pilus miniatures for The Analogue Hobbies Painting Challenge. It really screwed things up. Very bad castings and I suspect that it was not in fact the moulds, but the manner in which they were cast, ergo the pitting.

To be clear I really like their sculpts but when it takes as long to clean them up as to paint them, it's really off-putting.

Anyway this is off topic and I'll say no more!

That was one of the most disappointing aspects of the whole debacle- I love Bill Thornhill's sculpts and was very disappointed with what I received. I used to keep quiet about these sorts of problems but I've had so many bad experiences over the years I now speak out.

I have to say, that I have not had a single problem with any of Aventine's castings. Not one. It is possible to produce very high quality miniatures, great castings. Kudos to both Adam and Keith.