The Admiral

[former user]

IMHO, the problem with movie picturing of RCW from the non Bolshevik side nowadys is the amount of support they received from abroad. It would be close to impossible to blend out the interventionist support and thus a need to accept that they did not manage in spite of the generous help. For a Russian propaganda movie to admit this nowadays would be a wonder, since they tend to portrait any foreign help as intrusion from the west.  So I do not really believe in seeing any more RCW movies anytime soon.

The Admiral Kolchak plot was easy - he was successfull until betrayed by the French and Czekhs.
Not a mention that he had the non-Bolshevik rest of the Russian parliament shot or that there wouldn't have been any gain at all without the help of the Czekh legion.

[koz10]

The Admiral Kolchak plot was easy - he was successfull until betrayed by the French and Czekhs.
Not a mention that he had the non-Bolshevik rest of the Russian parliament shot or that there wouldn't have been any gain at all without the help of the Czekh legion.

Pulllleeeeze - would you really think that Hollywood, Novgorodwood or whatever "wood" that Russia has (or anywhere else for that matter) would let truth and fact get in the way of making a movie? Surely, no one believes that Braveheart was even close to being historically accurate? Even Admiral had the Friedrich Carl around 2 years longer than it actually survived.

[koz10]

Where, actually, is the port of Pilau?

[Poliorketes]

Pillau is near Königsberg / Kaliningrad in East Prussia. Today it's called Baltijsk.

[former user]

Pulllleeeeze - would you really think that Hollywood, Novgorodwood or whatever "wood" that Russia has (or anywhere else for that matter) would let truth and fact get in the way of making a movie?

I agree, but there is a slight difference between a wide interpretation and misleading inaccuracies that turn the historical events.
I don't care if the mine event of the Karl Friedrich was earlier in the movie or Kolchak gave the shooting order to his firing squad himself or not. But depicting the Czech Legion as traitors alone and ignoring what they did for the Anti-Bolshevik movement for 2 years is misleading.

[Mark Plant]

IMHO, the problem with movie picturing of RCW from the non Bolshevik side nowadys is the amount of support they received from abroad.

Not really an issue for a movie, since the support was diplomatic and material, not men on the ground. Sure a real White army should have some men clad in British uniform and using British weapons, but I wouldn't think badly of a movie that didn't show it (or showed it without comment, so most people would never know).

Kolchak's failure was as much about the inability of his army to get the Allied support to the front, thanks to the length of the train track and the interference of Semenov and the Japanese. But even the most supported army, Iudenich's, was propped up by the Estonians more than the British.

I think that the difficulties that modern Russians have in accepting that the Czechs not only fought against the Bolsheviks willingly, but did so to support a moderate Russian Socialist regime, is a bigger issue. And that Kolchak largely had himself to blame for alienating them so utterly.

[former user]

doesn't matter how You elaborate on it or how the details are, the movie depicts something else.

Anyway, it was about other RCW movies and why I thought hardly more would be made.
I think if Russians do recognize Czech (or Austrian for that matter)  uniforms, they would also recognize British ones.
Janin was depicted so stereotypically french, I even think it is the actor who advertizes french cheese 

So how can anyone in Russia expect to see e.g. Yudenich's campaign supported by Estonians?

or other examples - British and French tanks, or whatever.

The only way one could turn this around in favour for the Whites would be to depict all foreigners would as traitors who abandonded the Anti-Bolshevik cause - but even this would show the White movement incompetent.
The historical fact is that Tsarist Russia was not as nice as depicted in the Kolchak movie and a revolution was inevitable - and that all democratic parties blew it and let the Bolsheviks assume the power. And that would tell a lot about the Russia of today....
The sad thing is that even democratically educated people often find something good about such movies and are forgetting how the entertainement propaganda changes the history - and this in favour of 2 hours fun.  (of course this goes for a lot of other movies too)

just my very humble oppinion...

[Mark Plant]

I think where we differ former user is that I don't see the Russians being any different from most other countries in the making of movies.

But because you or I could not make an RCW movie that fits within our limits of acceptable authenticity does not mean someone else can't. They'll just bend history to fit their purpose and the audience will lap it up if it is good entertainment.

Same goes in Hollywood.

[Ignatieff]

All valid stuff.  'Braveheart' being the worst modern example (or as Billy Connolly called it "s***e").  And yes, I am Scottish.

[Westfalia Chris]

All valid stuff.  'Braveheart' being the worst modern example (or as Billy Connolly called it "s***e").  And yes, I am Scottish.

Donīt forget "Vercingetorix", or, as I prefer to call it, "The Revenge of the Gallic Ninja-Druids that left me wanting to bleach and scrub my eyes".

[former user]

True

the Russian film industry learned a lot from Hollywood

[Ignatieff]

Donīt forget "Vercingetorix", or, as I prefer to call it, "The Revenge of the Gallic Ninja-Druids that left me wanting to bleach and scrub my eyes".

hahahaha!  I'll need to look out for it!

[Westfalia Chris]

hahahaha!  I'll need to look out for it!

DONīT! I usually do not tell people to avoid movies, but this one is so bad, itīs not even good anymore. Itīs really, really bad. Starring Christopher Lambert as an uninspiring Vercingetorix and Klaus Maria Brandauer as a hackey Caesar (good Lord, I think he really, really needed the money), terribly bad editing, Roman costumes not suitable to the period portrayed (but otherwise good quality, which is the worst thing about it), miserable dialogue... the list just goes on and on, like Hadrianīs Wall, but the latter is at least inspiring to look at.

[Altius]

All valid stuff.  'Braveheart' being the worst modern example (or as Billy Connolly called it "s***e").  And yes, I am Scottish.

Well, speaking as a Yank, I found The Patriot to be heavy on flag-waving patriotic fervor and light on historical facts. The Russians aren't the only ones who use their movies to shape history into the way they want to see it. 

[Ignatieff]

Well, speaking as a Yank, I found The Patriot to be heavy on flag-waving patriotic fervor and light on historical facts. The Russians aren't the only ones who use their movies to shape history into the way they want to see it. 

Hmmm....  Yes.  Mel Gibson again.