Czech Legion Osprey book

[Mark Plant]

Good man.  I think your right on the hats after all.  The pants were fuller as well, almost jodhpur like.  Maybe Mr C will issue some to go with his Czech infantry?

I think Copplestone's interest is the early period Czechs. So no cavalry. His Russian stuff will cover the small mounted scout portions of the infantry.

My only picture of late period Czech cavalry has those hats, but shows them as lancers.

[former user]

which is not surprising

did You intend to post any pictures or were You referring to the hats I described? (from Osprey)

I wouldn't see it that canonical
apart from the uniform change from tsarist to Kolchak army to the japan-made Vladivostok uniform, I would see the evolution from the 3 regiments to the 3 division more organic.
I don't see the Chechoslovak forces fighting as a regular army - they were always split up into batallions (as would fit on one train). There seem to have always been reserve/training units that became regiments upon receiving the colours. Same with the cavalry - hardly possible to move an entire cavalry regiment by train in combat conditions, so even designed as regiments under corps control, they must have been split up into desantniy sections for railway recon.
Also same with the artillery, that was later reorganized to suit 3 divisions.
I would even presume that the Bolsheviks copied a lot of succesful railway warfare tactics from the Czechs, as they copied cavalry tactics from the Whites/Cossacks.

A shame the Osprey book does not reveal the corps controlled units, like aircraft, AC and the armoured trains, for instance the second one and the improvised ones. This would give the wargamer more opportunities (they even had a "navy", a steamer on lake Baikal).

As with representing them on the battlefield - same with the Whites and Bolsheviks - one can hardly afford to have all the uniform changes. I therefore would opt for distinctive miniatures from the start instead of limiting to one period, which is also hard to achieve since the uniforms changed at different times for the different forces.
as always, IMHO

[Ignatieff]

I think Copplestone's interest is the early period Czechs. So no cavalry. His Russian stuff will cover the small mounted scout portions of the infantry.

My only picture of late period Czech cavalry has those hats, but shows them as lancers.

Mark

Would love to see the picture

[Mark Plant]

I always struggle to get pictures up here. I hope this has worked.

I therefore would opt for distinctive miniatures from the start instead of limiting to one period, which is also hard to achieve since the uniforms changed at different times for the different forces.

We all have to do that, more or less, or we would never get any gaming done.

hardly possible to move an entire cavalry regiment by train in combat conditions, so even designed as regiments under corps control, they must have been split up into desantniy sections for railway recon

I not so sure about the "must" in there. My understanding, and I accept it is limited, is that the cavalry were kept as a whole regiment. For most of the retreat they weren't under combat conditions, so moving by train was no issue. Once the Reds caught them and started fighting they had to mostly go on foot as their trains were captured.

For scouting the regiments had their own mounted sections, in normal uniforms.



I have no idea where I got these pictures from, sorry.

[former user]

I not so sure about the "must" in there. My understanding, and I accept it is limited, is that the cavalry were kept as a whole regiment. For most of the retreat they weren't under combat conditions, so moving by train was no issue. Once the Reds caught them and started fighting they had to mostly go on foot as their trains were captured.

For scouting the regiments had their own mounted sections, in normal uniforms.

the pictures are interesting, thx
from what I read, the recon cavalry was combined into the regiments, but my source might be wrong.
Of course for transport only whole regiments wouldn't be a problem, but then what would be the point if they were confined to railways anyway.

I read the detailed account from Your HP, and what I understood was that after the initial gathering and the conquest of the transsiberian, railroad travel wasn't a basic problem anymore. There were these limited engagements when they had to fight large numbers of organized Bolsheviks in 1919, and for that only cavalry regiments would have made sense.
From my understanding, after the defeat of Kolchak and the allied Cossacks (who would have provided enough cavalry for large engagements) the own cavalry regiments might have become a necessity and it goes well with the date of their installation.

Anyway, the first picture is from paradeground (maybe from the founding of the regiments?), and I would expect any cavalry to look more like on the second picture on campaign whether these are integrated recon or independent regiment.
however, all is only educated guess without sources, so I would rather trust Your understanding.

more reason to use the french dragoons  anyway

[Ignatieff]

Great pics Mark, many thanks.  Re the figures, I would concentrate on head swaps former user.  The uniforms look very Russian apart from the headgear.

[Mark Plant]

This is not a subject where I trust me, former user! I try to read what I can, but information on the Czechs is mighty scarce.

A couple more photos, taken from eBay postings. Therefore it is hard to vouch for them as authentic. The first claims to be scouts of the 7th Regiment (with an American), so more mounted infantry than true cavalry. They seem to be wearing the sort of hats shown afterwards, but it is hard to tell.

[former user]

closer to a french kepi than anything I know

[former user]

here


@argsilverson gave me that link, after the description it could be very well UDERNIK, at least it looks very much like the Zaamuretz by concept and I've never seen this type before

thx Kyrie