clash of spears

[skirmishman]

Question for the hive mind please. I seem to remember reading somewhere an article on the Clash of spears rule set but where. Not on here I believe it may have been in one of the wargame mags, but which one     

[Ragnar]

Wargames, Soldiers and Strategy, issue 106 has Let's play Clash of Spears. 

[Easy E]

Well, if you are looking for more info I have a review of the game here too:

http://bloodandspectacles.blogspot.com/2020/10/review-clash-of-spears-fighting-hedgehog.html

[skirmishman]

Thanks everyone mystery solved.

[pallard]

How strange Clash of Spears, by far the most clever and accurate large skirmish Ancient rules available, does attract so poor attention here! Maybe this is because the authors are Argentinians and not British. I have tried a lot of rules and CoS beats everything apart from the Lardies products. But it takes some thinking to play well and nowadays old hands ( like myself) want easy neuronal stuff ( shame on them) while young ones just may not be able to try anything else.

[monkeylite]

Yeah, I was very impressed by the rules, but really I was just using my gaulish and roman warbands for CoS while waiting for Saga:AoH to come out. Not the fault of the rules, but I was already hooked on Saga.

Also, the game (like Saga) is very tactical and nuanced, and requires a bit of a learning curve. It's not one of those games that a newbie can just say 'I want to move this unit to here and this unit to here.' You have to manage your fatigue and activations pretty cleverly to stand a chance. This might be a bit of a barrier to new players.

[mellis1644]

Yeah it's got a lot of depth, in fact I think there is more action planning in clash of spears than some lardy games - Sharpe practice or CoC as an example.

Most lardy games are about managing the events and order thing happen. You have a game strategy but need to manage the random order of events/actions to make that a reality. CoS requires more direct planning for contingencies as the order of actions is important. You and your opponent have more control of trying to do thing in specific order but the 'fog of war' is there with interrupts and troops not wanting to do things because of fatigue etc. CoS feels quote different in play.
 
Note, I like both styles and games, but they do feel different to me. I have a quick review and example game write up here: https://mellis1644.wordpress.com/2021/10/22/clash-of-spears-game-report-and-review/

[pallard]

I share both your analysis. Yes CoS demands constant decisions and might be difficult for newcomers. I have been on the verge of playing Saga for years, maybe the new Sassanids will finally drive me in. Not the same approach but in it's own way quite thoughtful too. I do love Mortal Gods too even if yet another game style.

[mellis1644]

Yeah Saga has another feel to the game completely as well. It's more 'mythical' because of the 'super-powers' and planning for those.

I like SAGA as well but it feels more of a game to me vs. simulation. Nothing wrong with that but the mechanics of the system are in your face vs. CoS or lardy games where the system in some ways drops out of view as you play more.

[craigjonwoodfield]

I don't mind CoS, but it is just a little too 'fiddly' and dense, and I suspect that is why it hasn't taken off, rather than any prejudice on the part of the wargaming public. It isn't an easy read, and doesn't leap out as skirmish game.

Can't stand TFL rules. Mostly play Saga and LR, both of which have their issues, but give good games and are significantly more popular.

[pallard]

Maybe we could all rejoice to have such a large choice. Everybody can pick up his best one. I certainly prefer the " fiddly " ones, mainly because I desperately try to keep my brain cells at the reasonably modest level they used to be while getting older... And as an anxious person I may be over aggressive in my expressed opinions  . Don't take it too seriously. I hope you get maximum satisfaction out of your preferred rules, and their origin has nothing to do with them. After all, you play Saga which is a french set of rules 

[seldon]

Just in case you stop by and read again ..

I had not stopped by LAF for a long time.. busy with the released we had later.. CLASH of Katanas, Fields of Blood, Arcane Companion..

I can honestly say that we have not felt much prejudice, what I see more likely is that being a small outfit out of the US is not easy. In UK gamers are very concentrated geographically and small outfits can collaborate with magazines and such to get their name out.. For us it is harder..  ON The Tabletop ( Beasts of War ) has helped us a lot being very supportive..

It is also difficult for us to sell to Europe due to VAT requirements, here it is Norhtstar Miniatures that has helped us a lot.

In Spain Miniaturama published a translation to Spanish and the rules really took off, they have done many events, games, even many tournaments of both Spears and Katanas.
In the US we also have an active community but they don't visit these forums.. We've ran campaigns, tournaments and events and conventions of both Spears and Katanas.. and now starting with the Arcane Companion.

In general we are very grateful to the wargaming community and to people that write wonderful reviews like yours Mellis1644. Our rules are more nuanced that what many people imagine to be "skirmish". I certainly would not call them fiddly as in the 3 years so far since publication we have not had to amend anything despite the rules being tested in competitive environments. The system is tight, but the level of complexity is comparable to other large battle rules systems, it is not aimed for beer and pretzel which is what many people look for in "skirmish".
We totally understand that, we just wanted the option to play a more nuanced game, like SAGA, but less heroic and more traditional wargame, with a lower figure count..

In any case... my fault not being here in LAF more often, I had enjoyed this forum long before we started our project and I should keep visiting more..

I actually just came back to check a few answers that I had gotten long time ago for one of my favorite games, Victory Decision..

cheers..

and again.. thank you for your review and your battle reports !!

sorry for the necroposting I had to cast raise dead

cheers

Francisco

[Mindenbrush]

Here in Montreal, our group plays both Clash of Spears and SAGA.
SAGA gets more game time as it supports our local game store (Abyss) where we regularly play but Clash is a good way to get started in Ancients as you just need the rule book and a few accessories rather than rulebook, scenario book, army book.

[Ninefingers]

Can't stand TFL rules. Mostly play Saga and LR, both of which have their issues, but give good games and are significantly more popular.

I was going to say exactly this 

Read a couple of the TFL rulesets and couldn't work out how they were supposed to be fun.

[seldon]

Here in Montreal, our group plays both Clash of Spears and SAGA.
SAGA gets more game time as it supports our local game store (Abyss) where we regularly play but Clash is a good way to get started in Ancients as you just need the rule book and a few accessories rather than rulebook, scenario book, army book.

That is awesome. Much appreciated... Time to do some CLASH of Katanas, maybe if your store gets some Fireforge Samurai soon