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Author Topic: Late roman marines and sailors help  (Read 549 times)

Offline rumacara

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Late roman marines and sailors help
« on: August 31, 2022, 06:05:29 PM »
Hello all

I´ve tried to search the web for late roman marines and sailors without much success so i´m asking for some help.
Looking for images and descriptions about roman sailors and marines or some of your painted minis so that i take some ideas and paint a small group for skirmish games.
Perhaps their look and equipment varied from diferent places so i´m looking for the types used in the british isles and France, to fight against germanic tribes and the picts.

Thank you for your help

Rui

Offline SJWi

  • Mad Scientist
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Re: Late roman marines and sailors help
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2022, 07:39:04 PM »
Rumacara, I have the Osprey MAA "Imperial Roman Naval Forces 31BC-AD500".  The section on the Later empire talks about troops using "intercisa" style helmets or phrygian caps,  tunic and trousers plus the typical late roman oval shields. From this description I would imagine most ranges of "late roman unarmoured spearmen" would work, although  some sources also mention armour. Blue would appear to be the favoured colour, with blue-green being used by the "Naves Exploratoriae" .

I wouldn't view this as an "expert" opinion but may be useful.

Regards

     

Offline ithoriel

  • Bookworm
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Re: Late roman marines and sailors help
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2022, 07:40:26 PM »
Until someone more knowledgeable, not hard, comes along I'll kick off with this.



I reckon the guy in the foreground, armed with an Auxilia styled shield, a spear and sword would do for a marine. Earlier period marines seem to have relied on shield and helmet for protection, presumably because it was easier to move around the ship in, and less likely to kill you if you went into the water, than adding chain or scale.

The guys behind would probably do for sailors or oarsmen.
Some ships are said to have been a blue-green colour as primitive camouflage so tunics might have been a similar colour.
To the best of my knowledge, information is sketchy. So my advice is, go with what looks right to you and dare anyone else to prove you wrong. Remember, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.  :)
There are 100 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who can work from incomplete data.

Offline Ten Fingered Jack

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Re: Late roman marines and sailors help
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2022, 01:22:45 AM »
Osprey's "Arthur and the Anglo Saxon Wars" features an illustration by Angus McBride containing Roman sailors wearing plain light blue tunic, white trousers and soft caps.

Offline ithoriel

  • Bookworm
  • Posts: 72
Re: Late roman marines and sailors help
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2022, 03:01:47 AM »
Good find, Ten Fingered Jack!
Copy of the image

Offline ithoriel

  • Bookworm
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Re: Late roman marines and sailors help
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2022, 03:11:04 AM »
Apparently Osprey also have "Imperial Roman Naval Forces 31 BC - AD 500"
The cover of which looks like this.

I'm guessing the guy in the middle is a sailor or marine.
Dagnabbit! Another book to add to my next Amazon foray .... the online retailer not the jungle!  :)

Offline SJWi

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Re: Late roman marines and sailors help
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2022, 04:33:49 AM »
Chaps, this is the book I referred to in my earlier post. Worth getting but probably a luxury investment for assembling a skirmish force. The figure that Ithoriel refers to dates from the Antonine period 100-200AD. I thought the question was about the "late period" say 300-400AD. The illustrations from the same book for the period 250 AD onwards show marines looking very similar to late Roman unarmoured infantry.     

Offline WorkShy

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  • Posts: 47
Re: Late roman marines and sailors help
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2022, 03:42:16 PM »
I've got Arthur and the Anglo Saxon Wars and, as much as I like pictures by Angus McBride, it's academic value is (to be kind) low. From the more academic papers I've read, I don't see any signficant evidence to suggest that late 4th century Roman naval marines wore anything different than any typical unarmoured limitanei. Evidence though is scant to non-existent.

Even in earlier centuries evidence is very limited. The Adiutrix legions were raised from marines by Nero. Examples of brass Weisnau type helmets are attributed to them - Imperial Gallic I from Mainz and one almost identical from Aquincum, another base for I Adiutrix in the early 2nd century. Brass or bronze could make sense for marines as it will not corrode like iron in a wet environment. The Mainz column bases could also show soldiers from the Adiutrix legion that was based there at the same time as Legio XIIII Gemina. There are shield blazons shown as well as what could be a symbolic representation of the marine by use of fishes for eyebrows on one of the helmets.

In summary: You can basically do what ever you want. We don't have any solid evidence and what we do have suffers from very small sample bias. 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2022, 03:44:51 PM by WorkShy »

Offline WorkShy

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  • Posts: 47
Re: Late roman marines and sailors help
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2022, 03:43:34 PM »
double post deleted

 

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