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Author Topic: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary  (Read 925 times)

Offline craigjonwoodfield

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Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« on: August 14, 2022, 11:24:58 AM »
As the author of the rules, I thought that I would start a post to answer any general questions that LAF members might have. It is my understanding that FF will release a beta version of the rules to all who purchase them as part of the KS, and we will happily take feedback before finalising them.

That's not to say they aren't mostly written - they are - but you can never have too much playtesting.

In terms of complexity, I would say that the rules are a little more detailed and complex than Lion Rampant - one of my favourite rules sets.

One of the key features of these rules is the ability to field units of ashigaru with mixed weapons - combinations of yari, yumi and teppo. This is something that I felt very strongly about. Although the later Sengoku jidai did feature uniformly armed units of ashigaru, the earlier part of the period was much more likely to feature mixed units. it also allows you to play the game at almost a 1:1 skirmish level, with samurai bringing their retainers to battle and them all being thrown together for an engagement.

Anyway, any questions, feel free to ask. I will try and respond as best  can, given my time constraints.

cheers

CW



Offline Nick2729

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Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2022, 12:52:39 PM »
Hi Craig,

I was very excited to hear you were authoring these rules being a big fan of Ronin.

A few questions (my main interest is the big battle focus):

1. How are you ensuring period flavour (big question I realise) - treachery, honour, mixed cavalry formations, battle formations, things like Oda rotational fire or Takeda cavalry etc
2. What is the upper size of battle it will accommodate?
3.What is the command and control mechanism?  IGO-UGO, alternate unit activation through phases, etc. Use of period signaling - drums, messengers, Conch shells
4. How complexity of maneuver reflected?
5. Group moves?
6. How do leaders influence the game?
7. If there any pre battle set up?
8. Missions/scenarios? Ambush/Flank march etc
9. Campaign rules?
10. Siege rules?

Sorry - lots of detailed questions I realise!

Thanks in advance.

Offline craigjonwoodfield

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Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2022, 09:43:06 PM »
Yep, that's lots of questions  :)

1. There are a number of period-specific rules, such as mixed units as noted. Honour plays a big role, and challenges will enhance or degrade this. Treachery is an option in multi-player games.
2. Not sure. The upper limit for a single retinue is probably 80 or so models, but I think it could accommodate multiple retinues per side of around 50 models each.
3. Alternate unit activation, simple (automatic) and complex (require a test) activations.
4. Wheels, marches and reforms are complex activations if within 18" of the enemy.
5. No
6. Combat and morale bonuses, can also challenge and fight other commanders.
7. Yes
8, 9 and 10. Several scenarios provided, hope to add additional ones, plus campaigns, later on. Basic rules for units gaining experience.

Offline wkeyser

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Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2022, 03:34:47 AM »
Will the rules be stand alone?  I am also a great fan of Ronin, and look forward to these rules. Do you know when they will be available on the Fireforge site and not part of kickstater?

Offline wkeyser

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Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2022, 03:40:47 AM »
Saw in the kickstarter that you could just get the rules so of course I just did that. As to the figures I just dont like the short and stout look. I wish designers of Samurai and Ashigaru troops would take a look at the many books showing re-enactors in Japan. The men are not that stout looking I find that too many Samurai figures look like fantasy dwarves. 

Look forward to the pdf of the rules.


Offline Nick2729

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Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2022, 06:43:49 AM »
@Wykeser - I'm afraid the last thing you should do is look at modern re-enactors for a height comparison. The height of Japanese as a race has increased over time. e.g. the average height of a Japanese soldier in WW2 was 5ft3" where as a modern Japanese man averages 5ft7". If you look at real suites of Japanese armour in museums you will see they were not made for tall men.

Fireforge have published comparison photos of their figures with other makes. They are very slightly taller and bulkier than Perry Miniatures for example - which are always held up as examples of anatomically correct 28mm.

I understand that Fireforge have gone for Heroic sculpting so they will be bulkier than "standard" figures.

So if anything they are actually too tall!  ;)


Offline wkeyser

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Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2022, 07:26:51 AM »
Hi Nick
It is nothing to do with height it is the stockyness of the figures. My wife who used to work in conservation in New York was working on some ACW uniforms I was lucky enough to look at them and I was struck with how skinny they were. I also remember a conservation with Antony Barton talking about some "stocky" figures form a manufacturer that we both knew and he remarked that they must be using modern re-enactors to model the figures as they where so "stocky".

I do think Perry are the best due to their anatomically correct proportions and reflecting what soldiers would have look like. Not a lot of McDonalds in Japan at the time ;)

I probably will not be getting any of the figures as I do just not like the "Heroic sculpting" , however, I am really looking forward to the rules.


Offline wkeyser

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  • Posts: 209
Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2022, 09:55:14 AM »
Hi Craig I read the description in one of the updates in the Kickstater and was hoping you could give us some examples of "gumi". I am looking forward to the pdf of the rule so i can try them out.

Offline Osmoses

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  • Posts: 326
    • Tenka Fubu: Sengoku Jidai 'blog
Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2022, 07:29:01 PM »
"Kumi" if it's a standalone word, it's only 'gumi' in some compound words (due to rendaku). So if some 'ashigaru' form a 'kumi' it becomes an 'ashigaru-gumi'

Offline craigjonwoodfield

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  • Posts: 27
Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2022, 07:58:06 AM »
Hi Craig I read the description in one of the updates in the Kickstater and was hoping you could give us some examples of "gumi". I am looking forward to the pdf of the rule so i can try them out.

A gumi is 6-12 models strong, though the upper limit may increase (it was originally 18, but this was a little unbalancing on game play).

Offline wkeyser

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Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2022, 11:38:22 AM »
Thanks Craig look forward to the pdf of the rules. One question is there any chance the rules will be shipped out earlier than the figures for those of us who only want the rules?

Offline craigjonwoodfield

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Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2022, 11:08:25 PM »
I think the intent is for everyone who backs the rulebook to get a pdf of the beta rules early. I would certainly welcome feedback before finalising the rules.

The rules also feature 8 special clan rules, allowing some customization of each force.

Offline wkeyser

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Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2022, 05:27:21 AM »
Hi Craig
When will the pdf of the rules be sent out?

Offline craigjonwoodfield

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  • Posts: 27
Re: Fireforge samurai kickstarter - rules commentary
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2022, 06:49:17 AM »
That is in the hands of FireForge.

 

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