RAF Elsham Wolds.

[Harry Faversham]

Living in Cleethorpes, I'm ideally placed, to go exploring 'Bomber County'. I recently re-read Don Charlwood's 'No Moon Tonight' and 'Journeys into Night', both books describing his tour of ops from Elsham Wolds.
The master plan is to walk from Barnetby station up the old road to Elsham village, then up to what bit remains of the old airfield today. First up was a look at the surviving hanger and Memorial on the industrial estate...

This little tale is not related in either book, but I've been told it by more than one old timer on the seafront! A Grimsby trawler was spotted in trouble of Spurn Point by a an Elsham Wolds Lanc. The crew alerted the search and rescue lads in Grimsby and they rescued the trawler's crew from their sinking ship. Two of the rescued crew were brothers, their mother living in a large house called 'The Rookery' in Mill Road, Cleethorpes. To show her appreciation the old lady made the house open to any Elsham Wolds aircrew having a night out in Cleethorpes. Don Charlwood mentions staying there on several occasions. His description of a cold, wet and foggy Cleethorpes as he made his way back to the train station rings very true to this day. Proving that our pokey little seaside resort was as 'orrible then, as it is now!

'The Rookery'

[SJWi]

Harry, very interesting . Have you visited the "International Bomber Command Centre" just south of Lincoln? I hadn't heard of it until 2 months ago and went last week.Very interesting and a worthy cause to support.

[modelwarrior]

The mother in law use to live near by to Elsham Wolds and use to call it Warsaw Hamlet. Lots of Polish people were living at the base awaiting relocation after WW2. She also remembers her mother mentioning it was active pre WW2 and taking cover under a kitchen table in Lincoln when Zeppelins flew over.

[carlos marighela]

Nice. Good to see some belated efforts to memorialise the old Bomber Command Stations.

My grandfather’s elder brother Dougie was a navigator* in 10 Sqdn on Halifaxes. Was shot down by friendly fire from another Halifax testing its guns as they crossed the German coast. He spent 6 days evading before being caught and jugged in Stalag Luft III.**

I remember when Memphis Belle came out thinking that they were jammy buggers being rotated out after 25 trips. When Dougie’s plane went down the crew were on their 38th mission. On the upside they all survived.

Curiously enough 52 years after his Halifax went down outside of Papenberg they discovered its remains. Old Dougie was chuffed that they found his old plane.


*His younger brother, being in fighter command, always referred to the winged ‘O’ for observer as the flying ass.

** Yep that one, of movie fame.

[Harry Faversham]

Harry, very interesting . Have you visited the "International Bomber Command Centre" just south of Lincoln? I hadn't heard of it until 2 months ago and went last week.Very interesting and a worthy cause to support.

Yes, went shortly after it opened... on a special op!
There's an ex-Lanc rear gunner still on the go, who's a member of our local RAF Club. He was there on opening day, and was interviewed on tele. It was a very busy, tiring and emotional day for the Veterans. So busy, he didn't get chance to find his old mate's name on the memorial to pay his respects. In his book, the rear gunner recalls seeing his friend's aircraft hit by flak, on a daylight raid over Normandy. He clearly saw him tumble from the Lanc's rear turret, sadly the man's parachute failed. I was privileged to find the name and place a cross and poppy beside it, we took a few piccys for my rear gunner pal.
As regards the place, the museum's pretty crap, all virtual and only half a dozen artifacts. But the actual Memorial garden and monument is a magnificent tribute to the men of Bomber Command, well worth the trip for that alone.

[Harry Faversham]

Lancasters at RAF East Kirkby...

 

[robh]

 Nice picture, recent?. Paparrazi lens or were you that close to the flight line?

[Harry Faversham]

4th of August at East Kirkby air display. 'Just Jane' does a full four engine run up, as the BBMF Lanc gads about upstairs!
My lad took the piccy on a his mobile trombone. As to closeness, as they taxi 'Just Jane' to the hard standing, the crowd's almost under her starboard wing!
The Heritage Centre also sports a N/F Mossie that does engine runs too. Six Merlins going full chat, twenty yards away, is pretty awesome.

[Harry Faversham]

[Harry Faversham]

More Janes!





Sexy Jane's curtesy of RobH.

 

[Harry Faversham]

Nice. Good to see some belated efforts to memorialise the old Bomber Command Stations.

My grandfather’s elder brother Dougie was a navigator* in 10 Sqdn on Halifaxes. Was shot down by friendly fire from another Halifax testing its guns as they crossed the German coast. He spent 6 days evading before being caught and jugged in Stalag Luft III.**

I remember when Memphis Belle came out thinking that they were jammy buggers being rotated out after 25 trips. When Dougie’s plane went down the crew were on their 38th mission. On the upside they all survived.

Curiously enough 52 years after his Halifax went down outside of Papenberg they discovered its remains. Old Dougie was chuffed that they found his old plane.


*His younger brother, being in fighter command, always referred to the winged ‘O’ for observer as the flying ass.

** Yep that one, of movie fame.

One for you Carlos, my mate's Dad served on No.10 Squadron. Here's some piccys of their part in the Peenemunde Raid. Colin had a most interesting war, in a later raid on Turin he had to bail out over France. The crew had just crossed the Alps when severe icing sent their kite out of control. The pilot ordered the crew to bail out, three of them did, then the pilot managed to regain control and made it home. Colin went into hiding with the French Resistance, taking part in some of their acts of sabotage after the Allied invasion.
Long after the war, both myself and his son Dave, went to a couple of 10 Squadron reunions with Colin. Great stuff, a flight in a Herkeybird, then best bib and tucker for tea in the Occifer's Mess. It was on one reunion when Colin had a heart attack and passed away. These men were truly our Greatest Generation.
Dave, gifted me this book, even after I used to wind him up with... 'If yer Dad was half as obnoxious as you, I bet his crew did it on a purpose'!

[CapnJim]

Interesting thread. 

My mom's cousin was in the US 44th Bomb Group, as a Navigator on a B-24.  He ship was shot down over Hamburg in August '44.  Spent the rest of his war in POW camps.  He wound up in Luft Stalag III (again, yes, that one), as well.  When I was in high school, he showed me pics of the journal he kept as a POW, and it included a map of Tom, Dick, and Harry that he had drawn in it.  Of course, he got there after the escape.  IIRC, he was one of the prisoners marched to the camp near Nuremburg, and liberated by the 14th US Armored Division.

There were thousands of prisoners at Luft Stalag III, Carlos, but I suppose it's possible that your grandad's brother and my mom's cousin might have met at some point...

[carlos marighela]

Tis possible. I know that he and his fellow POWs went on a long forced march in winter conditions before being liberated.  So you never know.

My grandfather used to refer to him as the POW who never escaped as he used to religiously attend all the ex-POW get togethers, as far away as Canada. This tickled his younger brother who had conducted part of his pilot training in Moosejaw, Canada and saw no compelling reason to ever return.

"12-13 August 1944

10 Squadron
Halifax III MZ773 ZA-Y
Op. Brunswick

Took off from Melbourne at 2128 hrs. Outbound and shortly after crossing the German coast at 18,000 feet it is believed the crew fell victim to fire from another Halifax which set fire to the outer port engine and No.4 fuel tank. The aircraft was abandoned and left to crash at 0010 hrs at Vollenerfehn, 3 km north of Papenburg.

Crew.

F/O. J. Saynor pow
Sgt. S. Milton pow
P/O. D D. Smallbone pow
F/S. H G. James pow
P/O. S. Jackson pow
Sgt. N. Brown pow
Sgt. M. Gilbert pow

The crew were engaged on their 38th sortie and were within hours of being screened."

RAF Bomber Command Losses Vol.5 - W R. Chorley

'Hours of being screened' meant, they went non-operational had they survived the mission. Posted to flight schools, training establishments etc. The golden ticket, as it were.

They actually found Doug's Halifax 52 years later where it had crashed, some German researchers were able to pin down the crash site. His younger brother had already spent a number of (far more pleasant years) in Germany, having been posted on attachment to the newly founded post-war Luftwaffe as a flying instructor from CFS.

Here's a photo of Dougie around the time they found his old bomber.

For me the amusing coincidences keep coming. He took off from Melbourne (Yorkshire) to bomb Braunschweig (Brunswick). I live in Melbourne and used to live in the Melbourne suburb of........ Brunswick. 

[carlos marighela]

Great Generation. Personally, I think every bugger who goes off and serves and doesn't endlessly moan and bang on about it gets a shot at that title, regardless of time period. Good sorts and bad in every age.

I used to be a member of the West St Kilda Returned Serviceman's league Club, the only one not owned by the RSL itself (a fairly ghastly organisation in past years). It was founded by WW2 veterans who clubbed together and bought an old house in St Kilda. At war's end they had rocked up to the local St Kilda Army and Navy Club where they were met with a mix of indifference and mild hostility, being told that theirs wasn't a 'real war' compared to the Great War and while yes, they were welcome to join they weren't welcome to drink at the bar itself, that was for the current 'Great Generation'. So they decamped and started their own club.

I've head similar things from Vietnam vets regarding WW2 veterans. On the whole I think things have probably improved in terms of acceptance for our current generations of veterans, at least vis a vis their comrades from earlier wars.

Thinking on the 8th Air Force, as I am currently watching Masters of the Air I was reminded of a former USAAF P-47 pilot I met. He married my grandmother's best friend at Cambridge who ended up as war bride, following him across the US in his subsequent career in the now USAF before ending up in Phoenix, AZ. 

My girlfriend and I stayed with them in Phoenix for a few days 30 something years back. No doubt he was brave man and all that but all I can recall is Ray sitting in his recliner with his 5 million cable channels, endlessly flicking the channel from one to the next and muttering in a voice that sounded like a mash-up of Foghorn Leghorn and the dog from Whacky Races all kinds of racist invective and old man whining. "Watchya wanna go to Mexico for? Plenny of wetbacks right here...etc, etc, etc"

If that was the golden generation......

[carlos marighela]

As a final footnote, it's sad to note that many of the RAAF aircrew who served both with Article XV squadrons and posted to RAF squadrons in Bomber Command received white feathers in the mail from idiots back in Australia. A sizeable portion of the community apparently thought they were living a cushy existence in London rather than facing the Japanese on Australia's doorstep.

Cruelly ironic, as RAAF aircrew in Bomber Command suffered the highest casualty rate of all services in the war, over 4,000 killed or over 20% of all Australian war casualties, despite being a fraction of the armed services. Bomber Command as a whole having losses of around 40%. 10 Squadron RAF had a sizeable number of RAAF aircrew serving with it.

Doubly ironic as Australia was somewhere that wasn't bombed, save for Darwin and suffered little in the way of rationing or privation compared to the UK.