Achaemenid Egyptian spearmen as Ptolemaic Egyptian phalangites?

[WuZhuiQiu]

Years ago, I ended up acquiring some "15mm" Xyston Egyptian spearmen as numbered among Achaemenid Persian contingents. I don't plan to raise an Achaemenid Persian army, but am wondering if, with pikes and phalangite shields, they might work as Egyptian phalangites under the Ptolemaic Kingdom? However, I gather that the wearing of long robes may have been done in emulation of the Persians during the First and Second Persian Satrapies. Still, if recruited from among native Egyptians, they may not have been fully hellenized. What do you think?

https://www.scotiagrendel.com/Xyston/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_3_11_42&products_id=128

[Pattus Magnus]

What you’re describing isn’t too far off the look 1st Corps used when sculpting their Ptolemaic Egyptian phalangites.

https://1stcorps.co.uk/product/ptolemeaic-egyptian-phalangites/

As you point out, the Ptolemaic troops might not have favoured the longer robes, but I’m not sure how much evidence there is about what they did wear….

[MartinD]

I'm planning a Ptolemaic Army in 28mm. All the references I've read suggest, rather boringly, that the Egyptian Pike looked pretty much identical to the rest of the Macedonian style Pike. I'm ignoring that, as there's very little definitive evidence about the look of the rest of the army anyway :-)

I have both the 1st Corps and the Aventine ones. The Aventine ones look more generic than the 1st Corps ones apart from the cool leather skull caps. They're less tiny than the 1st Corps and thus more compatible with the rest of the lead I bought, so i'll probably use them.   

[Jjonas]

I think you can get away with that, but with the caveat of knowledge as a shield against the naysayers.
I use the 1st Corps Egyptians, which are lively but not exactly accurate, so why not. (Link below for anyone who has never seen these)
I know the 1st Corps are totally fabricated and highly unlikely they would have been wearing Egyptian gear when their armor and outfits were provided by the state. Hellenistic troops were mostly outfitted by the royal commissariat. However we do hear of the rich kids buying extra armor at times.

OTOH I usually like a strong visual representation of troops for mine and my opponents enjoyment so having a clearly defined by uniform "Egyptian" look is fine by me.
Egyptians rebelled against the Ptolemies so those armies I would think actually had native looking troops. However we don't know much about their phalangites. The revolts were mostly suppressed. The key issue for the Ptolemies was not having their massive phalanx at Panion. This meant that the mercenaries had to protect the Ptolemaic citizen phalanx. The Seleucids prevailed and obliterated the Ptolemaic phalanx. It took them over a hundred years to build that citizenship base and it was wiped out. With the Machimoi still in suppression due to the rebellion the Ptolemaic army core evaporated.

Vendel makes these xyston figures in 28mm and I have wanted some of them for my Achaemenids.
But the 1st Corps work  for me, only for the theatrical value. As stated above the Aventine are more Hellenic looking.

Adding long pikes and phalanx pelta shields might make look the part, as one can get away with more in 15mm. But I wouldn't mind because I cant see 15mm anymore without a magnifying loop.

Sorry I can’t give you a black and white answer. However I can assure that wearing Egyptian gear will not affect their dice rolls.

https://ancientbattles.com/WAB_Ptolemaic/1stCorps_Ptolemaic.htm

https://ancientbattles.com/Aecurtis/ptolemaic_project/Progress_05.htm

[WuZhuiQiu]

Thanks, all! Jeff, about the shield decals, was your printer a laser printer? I presume that  you had to trim the decals down into circles, correct? It's good to read Allen's (RIP) posts.

[Jjonas]

Thanks, all! Jeff, about the shield decals, was your printer a laser printer? I presume that  you had to trim the decals down into circles, correct? It's good to read Allen's (RIP) posts.

My decals are printed on an Ink jet. I use a Canon Ink Jet. It so far has been my favorite home printer and does great up to 300 dpi. I do have to trim to circles but the ink jet paper is thin.
Below is my transfer making process. You can also paint the designs on the decal paper. The key is two good coats of Krylon or similar spray acrylic to protect the image. Decal inkjet film isn't the most sticky, but they work great for my needs. Yes is nice that I recruited Allen to do that project for me. I wanted those 1st Corps figures done and I had no time since work was crunch time. Allen came through with an excellent write up.

https://ancientbattles.com/HeroesOfGreece/AncientBattles_Homebrew_Transfers.html

[jcspqr]

There are also Ptolemaic machimoi from Polemarch/Gripping beast. Similar in design concept to the 1st Corp but closer in size to Foundry.

[Jjonas]

There are also Ptolemaic machimoi from Polemarch/Gripping beast. Similar in design concept to the 1st Corp but closer in size to Foundry.

Yes if I was starting out fresh these are my go to Machimoi phalangites.

https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/SCR24_Machimoi_Line_Phalanx_4--product--3308.html

But then I'm a bit biased, since I had a hand in designing the figures. I like the quilted jerkin as something that separates them from the citizen phalanx. Quilted armor is also noted in the Ptolemaic Army Montvert illustrations, and is described by Ptolemaic cavalry using quilted armor against Nubian arrows.
Sorry to hijack this thread about 15mm figures reuses and turning it into my favorite kind of Ptolemaic pedantry

[WuZhuiQiu]

There's no need to apologize, Jeff. This is interesting stuff, and it's good to have it one place for people's future reference.

[jcspqr]

Great that you still have the drawings Jeff


I commissioned the Polemarch range so that we would have period specific figures to go in Jeff’s anticipated WAB successors supplement.  Best laid plans…. 

[Jjonas]

Great that you still have the drawings Jeff

Yes. I only wish I had done more drawings and less rewrites of books that never saw the light of day.
That and climbing back to having a life again made actually painting projects difficult. I still have a pile of Polemarch figures I haven’t approached.
Someday soon I’m painting that Antigonid pike unit and cavalry. The new embossed Relic shields might push me to action.

[Frostie]

When I did my Levy Egyptian Pike for the Ptolemaic army at Raphia, using Xyston minis, I used Greek/Macedonian peltasta and javelin figures to represent their 'levy', newly raised appearance.
may be not historically accurate but it works for me.