Elizabethan Sea Dogs rules recommendations

[v_lazy_dragon]

Found it. This is not all totally correct, but should get figures looking about right. For what it is worth I was targeting the Spanish Armada 1588. Later gets plainer (See Crucible Crush English/Empress TYW Europeans) and earlier gets fancier (See TAG Tudors)

"Most figures from the 1580s to mid 1640s are potentially usable. While the Peascod doublet was the height of fashion, the 6 tab doublet was also around... and that was in use through to the 1630s. Ruffs were in, but collared shirts were in use too. 'Venetian' britches were coming into use, but trunk hose still lingered.
Wargear is also likely to have some variation-  the dregs of English armouries got shipped to the new world afterall. Don't expect regiments of sallets or maille shirt clad infantry... But occasional figures with some might work.
I am sure this will annoy the purists, so just to say 'sorry in advance' 😃

So there is scope to work in figures from all over provided there aren't too many divergences to spoil the general aesthetic. Too many (more than 2? Certainly more than 3) 'tolerable' items should be enough to push a figure into unacceptable (and this list is far from exhaustive or authoritative!).  Here's my working checklist...
(Usually there are features which negate the detractors- e.g. slashed doublet sleeves and a burgonet helmet might outweigh a buff coat and baldric on a TYW figure.)

Encouraged TYW/ECW:
Back, Breast and tassets armour
Morion helmets
Burgonet helmets
Cabasset helmets
Officers sash
Full length slashed sleeves
Doublet
Sleeveless buff coat (worn as a workmans tunic in the Elizabethan period rather than as armour)
'Falling band' collars
Soldiers Coat (technically around as a workmans jacket in the Elizabethan period, but its a very ECW look. Low status only)
'12 apostle' bandoliers
Broad brimmed hats (were around in the Elizabethan period, but again is more associated with later)

Tolerable/acceptable TYW/ECW:
Sword baldric
Monmouth knit cap
Lacy cuffs
Cassocks
Mortuary hilt swords
'Boot hose'
Flowing hair
'Musketeer' beards
Long-sleeved buff coat
Musket without a rest
Firelock muskets

Unacceptable TYW/ECW :
Lobster-pot helmet
Montero cap
Overly lacy collars
Long 'dutch' coats
Uniform appearance 😉

Engouraged Renissance:
Jack of plates
Brigandines
Trunk hose (+cannions)
Cabasset helmets
Morion helmets
Burgonet helmets
Back + breast armour (+ tassets and/or arm armour)
Target/Rondella shields
Curved stock arquebus
Rapier swords
Doublets

Tolerable Renissance:
Neck Ruff
Slashing on multiple garments (ideally only two out of sleeves/britches/torso)
'Symmetrical' slashed britches (i.e. same style on both legs)
Sleeves with different padding/slashing/etc at the top of the upper arm "split sleeves'
Fluted armour
'Conquistador' padded gambesons
Crossbows

Unacceptable Renaissance:
Asymmetrical slashed britches/sleeves
Plain hose
Barbutte helmets
Sallet helmets
Long tunics/jerkins (knee length)
'Landsknecht' caps
No collars
Full plate armour
Excessive slashing
'Landsknecht technicolor' paint schemes 😛
Metal arm armour without back + breast plates
Shields that aren't bucklers/targets/rondella/adarga"

Hope that helps a bit? Happy to talk more if it helps

[Patrice]

My playing group is using Foundry seadogs, and other ranges of figures, for skirmish/RPG games in the last period of the Wars of Religion in Brittany, which happened in the 1590s.

This historical context is interesting because you can have four different factions, allied two by two, with different objectives: The supporters of the new French King Henri IV (moderate catholics, and protestants), allied with England, vs the Très Sainte Ligue (Holy League, ultra-Catholics) allied with Spain.

AARs with many pictures:
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=136675.msg1738048#msg1738048
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=135834.msg1725904#msg1725904
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=120567.msg1511087#msg1511087
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=115636.msg1447270#msg1447270

In terms of period equipment, can anybody tell me when did pistols really become a thing?

Wheellock pistols existed, but were expensive, so only for some nobles and cavalry.

[Maxromek]

Found it. This is not all totally correct, but should get figures looking about right. For what it is worth I was targeting the Spanish Armada 1588. Later gets plainer (See Crucible Crush English/Empress TYW Europeans) and earlier gets fancier (See TAG Tudors)

"Most figures from the 1580s to mid 1640s are potentially usable. While the Peascod doublet was the height of fashion, the 6 tab doublet was also around... and that was in use through to the 1630s. Ruffs were in, but collared shirts were in use too. 'Venetian' britches were coming into use, but trunk hose still lingered.
Wargear is also likely to have some variation-  the dregs of English armouries got shipped to the new world afterall. Don't expect regiments of sallets or maille shirt clad infantry... But occasional figures with some might work.
I am sure this will annoy the purists, so just to say 'sorry in advance' 😃

So there is scope to work in figures from all over provided there aren't too many divergences to spoil the general aesthetic. Too many (more than 2? Certainly more than 3) 'tolerable' items should be enough to push a figure into unacceptable (and this list is far from exhaustive or authoritative!).  Here's my working checklist...
(Usually there are features which negate the detractors- e.g. slashed doublet sleeves and a burgonet helmet might outweigh a buff coat and baldric on a TYW figure.)

Encouraged TYW/ECW:
Back, Breast and tassets armour
Morion helmets
Burgonet helmets
Cabasset helmets
Officers sash
Full length slashed sleeves
Doublet
Sleeveless buff coat (worn as a workmans tunic in the Elizabethan period rather than as armour)
'Falling band' collars
Soldiers Coat (technically around as a workmans jacket in the Elizabethan period, but its a very ECW look. Low status only)
'12 apostle' bandoliers
Broad brimmed hats (were around in the Elizabethan period, but again is more associated with later)

Tolerable/acceptable TYW/ECW:
Sword baldric
Monmouth knit cap
Lacy cuffs
Cassocks
Mortuary hilt swords
'Boot hose'
Flowing hair
'Musketeer' beards
Long-sleeved buff coat
Musket without a rest
Firelock muskets

Unacceptable TYW/ECW :
Lobster-pot helmet
Montero cap
Overly lacy collars
Long 'dutch' coats
Uniform appearance 😉

Engouraged Renissance:
Jack of plates
Brigandines
Trunk hose (+cannions)
Cabasset helmets
Morion helmets
Burgonet helmets
Back + breast armour (+ tassets and/or arm armour)
Target/Rondella shields
Curved stock arquebus
Rapier swords
Doublets

Tolerable Renissance:
Neck Ruff
Slashing on multiple garments (ideally only two out of sleeves/britches/torso)
'Symmetrical' slashed britches (i.e. same style on both legs)
Sleeves with different padding/slashing/etc at the top of the upper arm "split sleeves'
Fluted armour
'Conquistador' padded gambesons
Crossbows

Unacceptable Renaissance:
Asymmetrical slashed britches/sleeves
Plain hose
Barbutte helmets
Sallet helmets
Long tunics/jerkins (knee length)
'Landsknecht' caps
No collars
Full plate armour
Excessive slashing
'Landsknecht technicolor' paint schemes 😛
Metal arm armour without back + breast plates
Shields that aren't bucklers/targets/rondella/adarga"

Hope that helps a bit? Happy to talk more if it helps

Oh wow, that's well comprehensive, thanks a lot!

I will refer to the list when need be!

[Maxromek]

My playing group is using Foundry seadogs, and other ranges of figures, for skirmish/RPG games in the last period of the Wars of Religion in Brittany, which happened in the 1590s.

This historical context is interesting because you can have four different factions, allied two by two, with different objectives: The supporters of the new French King Henri IV (moderate catholics, and protestants), allied with England, vs the Très Sainte Ligue (Holy League, ultra-Catholics) allied with Spain.

AARs with many pictures:
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=136675.msg1738048#msg1738048
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=135834.msg1725904#msg1725904
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=120567.msg1511087#msg1511087
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=115636.msg1447270#msg1447270
Wheellock pistols existed, but were expensive, so only for some nobles and cavalry.

That's some good inspiration for scenarios, thanks!

[Metternich]

Wheelock Pistols appear in several Elizabethan portraits of military gentlemen.
  One such well-known portrait is that of Sir Martin Frobisher (now in the Bodleian Library) (he was a true Elizabethan Sea Dog):
 https://www.worldhistory.org/uploads/images/12369.jpg

  One of the most famous such portraits is that of Capt. Thomas Lee (painted 1594, now in the Tate Museum).  Capt. Lee is dressed like the Irish Kern he commanded (used as auxiliary troops by the British military).

 https://media.tate.org.uk/art/images/work/T/T03/T03028_9.jpg

The widest use of pistols in the period was made by cavalry, early on by the notorious reiters (also know as schwarzreiters) and later by cuirassiers. 

Wheelock pistols were also used in several famous assassinations/attempts on various Renaissance worthies.  In 1567 the Catholic Francois de Lorraine, Duke of Guise was ambushed while riding in the woods near Orleans and shot in the back by a Huguenot, Jean de Poltrot.  In 1582 a paid assassin, Juan de Jauregui, wounded William "The Silent," Prince of Orange.  William was subsequently assassinated in 1584 by Balthasar Gerard (who shot him while he was descending a stairway in the Prinzenhof).

[irish marine]

It seems that everyone put in all the figure suggestions, but my opinion is try Pikeman’s Lament, great set of quick rules I’ve been playing them for years and you should get the second edition of Lion Rampant the new rules have grenades and flame weapons that would be cool. 

[Maxromek]

After a long prep, I finally played En Garde! and really enjoyed it! There are some quirks, like how the pike work and how rank 5 units can slaughter through rank 2s like knife through butter, but I really liked the combat system 😁

I haven't gotten the seadogs painted yet, so used my Wargames Atlantic Conquistadors. Some photos attached. The highlights of the game was defo the duel of my captain and my opponents veteran underneath a poled house. Although it was rather quick, my captain sliced and diced through the vet 😂

[Metternich]

We found in Ronin that the way to deal with Rank 5 characters is via a musket.