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Author Topic: Epic thoughts...  (Read 3769 times)

Offline Verderer

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2022, 04:29:44 PM »
Yes, I've noticed. It can take a moment to figure out what they refer to sometimes. :D

I think the apostle guy is primarily for World Bearers, although the 40k fandom wiki hints they may exist in other traitor chapters too... basically a chaplain chappy with torchers on his backpack.

I am also printing some bases with 4 slots in them, maybe they work better for terminators?

Offline YPU

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2022, 08:23:34 PM »
They should be out there, but if you can't find any i could whip some up for you.
3d designer, sculptor and printer, at your service!



3d files! (here)

Offline Verderer

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2022, 09:23:17 PM »
Thanks, i found a couple of stl packs with all sorts of Epic bases, round, square, rectangles and with various number of slots.

Offline Verderer

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2022, 01:52:35 PM »
Oops, a local game shop had the Adeptus Titanicus starter set and AT Sector Industrialis (or whatsit) on discount, so naturally I purchased them. I guess I will have at least SOME use for them. :D

By the way, what is this lark about 'primaris' marines, they're supposed to be even larger than regular old ones? Are all the new marines GW now produces of this big ilk? I have completely missed this, are all the new 40k releases of this big variety?

So it's basically a reboot of the SM ranges, so they can sell them again (at higher price)? Or is all the Horus heresy stuff smaller? Not that I care too much, other that potential effect on the sizes of not-marines in 6mm to 8mm.

« Last Edit: December 05, 2022, 02:00:50 PM by Verderer »

Offline YPU

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2022, 02:42:31 PM »
That should set you up with pretty much a titan legion on its own I think! And the scenery is quite nice as well.

Yeah you got it in one, they are upgraded marines (in lore and out) they are larger, which is good as the old marines were quite consistent in size with guard and the like slowly overtaking them for height!  o_o  I'm not sure about the heresy stuff but I do believe its more in line with the old figures, except for the characters which end up pretty big at times I believe.


Offline Daeothar

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2022, 04:06:49 PM »
Yes; Primaris marines were conceived along the munchkin pattern of bigger is better. They are also better ruleswise, so every 40K player is nigh obligated to redo their Space Marine armies with the bigger, newer, better variety.

The switch is not 100% done, as it takes time to revamp an entire line, especially one as big as the Space Marine one. but they're slowly getting there, and more and more of the old stuff is being phased out.

The Horus Heresy marines are somewhere in the middle between the 3rd/4th/5th/6th edition marines and the newer Primaris ones when it comes to size. An interesting decision, since they've also pushed the lore of marines declining in stature since the Horus Heresy because the Primarchs were no longer available to provide fresh DNA (or something along those lines).

The end result is that the tried and true Space Marines are now basically reduced to being Squats (hey; there they were all this time! ;D ), and you either get the bigger before or the bigger after versions now.

That would all be well and good, were it not that they've now started releasing loads bigger Imperial Guard Astra Militarum miniatures, which brings those as close to Primaris marines in stature as the old Cadians were to old Space Marines...  ::)
Miniatures you say? Well I too, like to live dangerously...
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Offline Verderer

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2022, 04:10:00 AM »
You gotta hand it to GW, they really know how 're-invent' their main games, time and time again. There no comparison in the industry really. It's a great pity that they deserted their specialist games so fast, I mean their best games are Blood Bowl (which they have rebooted a couple of times to be fair), Necromunda, Mordheim, Epic & its cousins, Adeptus Titanicus, not to forget Warmaster & Bofa and others to be sure.

Offline fred

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2022, 07:31:58 AM »
There is talk of a reboot of Epic - not really hear much - other than it might be to add to the Titans.

Offline Verderer

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2022, 08:12:00 AM »
Oh really, interesting? Although I just read a forum thread from 2018 speculating the imminent release of tanks and infantry for AT... lol

Some progress, I printed bases with 4 slots, so the termies can live there a bit more comfy. I can take a fes shots later.

I've also agonized about scaling some Imperial and cultist infantry, they seem so tiny that I think I wll upscale them a bit so they fit with the apparently 8mm evil marines I showed earlier.

The same with tanks, some are so obviously true 6mm that they need a bit editing too. The trick is to find some points of reference, like the same model from two different sculptors and then comparing & scaling them.

Offline Cypher226

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2022, 09:45:00 AM »
You gotta hand it to GW, they really know how 're-invent' their main games, time and time again. There no comparison in the industry really. It's a great pity that they deserted their specialist games so fast, I mean their best games are Blood Bowl (which they have rebooted a couple of times to be fair), Necromunda, Mordheim, Epic & its cousins, Adeptus Titanicus, not to forget Warmaster & Bofa and others to be sure.

It's been reported in assorted interviews over the years that the dumpster fire that was Gorkamorka was responsible for the previous death of Specialist Games.  The foreign language editions were massively over-produced and didn't sell, almost bankrupting GW as a whole.

Offline Daeothar

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2022, 12:12:57 PM »
It's been reported in assorted interviews over the years that the dumpster fire that was Gorkamorka was responsible for the previous death of Specialist Games.  The foreign language editions were massively over-produced and didn't sell, almost bankrupting GW as a whole.

That's a sales/marketing foul-up rather than it being a bad game though...

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2022, 12:55:41 PM »
Eh, the people who like GorkaMorka all seem(ed) to love it though, which I think masks how well received the game really was; I honestly don't think it did anywhere near as well as Necromunda or Mordheim, despite needing much less "stuff" (including terrain) to get into. That's probably why the foreign-language editions really failed to sell, and not so much because they "over-ordered".

What's more interesting (and sadder) to me, is the lumping of Epic in with the other "Specialist Games". It was originally one of the core three games (together with 40k and WHFB), and was a consistently-selling game with a good following. However, the senior management at GW apparently decided that if they took on the LotR license from New Line Cinema, they'd have to drop one of the core games to make room for its promotion and marketing - that meant Epic got dropped. In fact, if memory serves, the early LotR coverage in White Dwarf was printed in the back of the magazine, and upside-down, so that it wouldn't get "mixed-in" with GW's other games... How much of this was done in to strengthen their bid for the license or to convince NLC that they'd give it due effort, I'm not sure.

Anyway, despite the re-launch of Epic with Epic 40k (and a range of largely excellent new models), it never really recovered from being dropped. Whilst some of this was (apparently, based on player feedback) due to the streamlined E40k rules, I think the bigger reason was really a lack of promotion and availability of models in stores. I know Epic Armageddon is often regarded as the best version of the rules, but I would have much preferred a second edition of E40k personally. Oh well!  o_o

Offline Daeothar

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2022, 01:36:29 PM »
If I recall correctly, Gorkamorka was not even supported through Specialist Games, even though most of the other games were (and then; some more than others).

I remember the upside-down White Dwarfs, but I always assumed that New Line forced GW to make absolutely sure that 'their' miniatures wouldn't be mixed with the existing lines. Hence the different scaling and also the separation in the magazine and the ban on using LotR miniatures and parts in Golden Daemon entries, etc.

Also, I didn't know that Epic got dropped because of LotR; to be honest, I can't even quite place when Specialist Games became a thing. What I do recall is that Epic 40K (which Jervis Johnson called his best game) was not as well received as was hoped. But how much of that was due to the shifting focus of GW, I couldn't say. Seems plausible enough though.

I have all Epic scale games bar the original Titanicus (which I will add to my collection some day!), but I am ashamed to admit; I've never even played a single game of Epic. Or Space Marine, or Titan Legions... I do want to though...  ::)

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2022, 05:06:02 PM »
If I recall correctly, Gorkamorka was not even supported through Specialist Games, even though most of the other games were (and then; some more than others).
It... Um, got a free PDF rules release online, and there were a few (4? 5?) little magazines for it in the Citadel Journal/Fanatic style, followed by these collected into 2-3 journals called Gubbinz. That was it.

I remember the upside-down White Dwarfs, but I always assumed that New Line forced GW to make absolutely sure that 'their' miniatures wouldn't be mixed with the existing lines. Hence the different scaling and also the separation in the magazine and the ban on using LotR miniatures and parts in Golden Daemon entries, etc.
I was never quite sure which party insisted on the very deliberate separation, but I always assumed that neither would want their IPs mixed with the other's for obvious legal reasons.

Also, I didn't know that Epic got dropped because of LotR; to be honest, I can't even quite place when Specialist Games became a thing. What I do recall is that Epic 40K (which Jervis Johnson called his best game) was not as well received as was hoped. But how much of that was due to the shifting focus of GW, I couldn't say. Seems plausible enough though.
It was in an interview with Rick Preistly I read online some time back... Lots of those interviews have since been removed over the years (sadly), but it struck a chord with me as it was something that I had always wondered about at the time. If I somehow have misremembered this though, I'd be gladly corrected!

I have all Epic scale games bar the original Titanicus (which I will add to my collection some day!), but I am ashamed to admit; I've never even played a single game of Epic. Or Space Marine, or Titan Legions... I do want to though...  ::)
I have all of them, except Space Marine 1, and only the PDFs of Epic: Armageddon. I've not played AT1, SM1 (obviously!), or the new Titanicus (embarrassingly...). You should definitely give SM2/TL a go, and I'd try Epic40k too (so easy to play!).

Offline YPU

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Re: Epic thoughts...
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2022, 06:18:59 PM »
Anyway, despite the re-launch of Epic with Epic 40k (and a range of largely excellent new models), it never really recovered from being dropped. Whilst some of this was (apparently, based on player feedback) due to the streamlined E40k rules, I think the bigger reason was really a lack of promotion and availability of models in stores. I know Epic Armageddon is often regarded as the best version of the rules, but I would have much preferred a second edition of E40k personally. Oh well!  o_o

So what I've heard in interviews (I'd link it but cant seem to find it now)  Epic Armageddon (EA) is considered one of his biggest failures by Jervis Johnson. Not because its a bad game, in fact it was way ahead of its time including many things that are quite current today, which might be why there is a minor revival of the game ongoing currently it seems. No it was too different from what came before. It might have been the best game to play 6mm 40k, it was not at all the best version of the traditional epic rules. And as mentioned it did not get huge levels of support, so the old player base was not biting, and new people weren't onboarded.


I have all Epic scale games bar the original Titanicus (which I will add to my collection some day!), but I am ashamed to admit; I've never even played a single game of Epic. Or Space Marine, or Titan Legions... I do want to though...  ::)


Im game for a game! I've been playing armageddon a fair bit of late but I'm curious to other editions as well!

 

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