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Author Topic: A Force on Force 'Nam question  (Read 899 times)

Offline MartinShamutantis

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A Force on Force 'Nam question
« on: November 25, 2022, 12:37:57 PM »
This January we are going to play a somewhat large scenario revolving around an NVA attack on a US firebase during Operation Chicago Peak. We are using Force on Force for this. In the scenario the NVA will be attacking across paddy fields. Some of them are to be armed with bangalores (yes, the Gringo40 minis!) in order to open the fencing around the base. In Force on Force no range is given for any firearms, which makes sense, but somehow I feel that the range of the bangalores should be limited to say 60” or something like that. However, I may here have a completely wrong impression of the bangalore and its use, which is mostly spurred by my wish to limit the range of the weapon due to the technicalities of the scenario.
Do you have any advice?

Cheers
Martin

Offline Mick_in_Switzerland

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2022, 12:48:05 PM »
A Bangalore Torpedo is not a projectile.

It is an explosive device in a 150 cm long pipe, which can be linked together. You have to walk up to the wire and push the bangalore under the wire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangalore_torpedo

Offline Volleyfire!

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2022, 09:33:10 PM »
As demonstrated in Saving Private Ryan during the beach landing.

Offline Ash

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2022, 09:21:31 AM »

Offline Sparrow

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Offline CapnJim

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2022, 12:32:25 AM »
I would treat it as an equivalent to a satchel charge (one charge per length of torpedo - they could be screwed together to breach a deeper obstruction.  I trained on them when I was an enlisted combat engineer).  It would have to be physically placed by a figure and then command-detonated.
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Offline MartinShamutantis

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2022, 08:38:28 AM »
Thanks for the replies and sorry for my slow reaction. Lesson learned: Don't pose a question and then go travelling.
I'm still not completely sure how to work this into the game. If you would use a bangalore to blow of a wire fence, from how far away could this be done with clear line of sight across a paddy field (to stay in the ‘nam context)? More specifically, concerning the scenario we are going to play, would it be reasonable to say that the NVA charging the US firebase have to get within 15 “ to fire the bangalores effectively at the fences around the base or would this be completely off the mark?
Cheers
Martin



Offline carlos marighela

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2022, 02:59:34 PM »
Most Vietnamese sapper attacks emphasised stealthy infiltration, cutting wire obstacles rather than advertising their presence in the killing ground. What is typically called the silent-noisy attack, the noisy bit coming once penetration was achieved.

Makes sense if you think about it. Wire obstacles, if properly placed, are always some way out, typically well beyond grenade distance where terrain allows. Obstacles are always covered by fire, it's what defines them as an obstacle rather than an inconvenience. Advertising your presence when you are facing the considerable firepower available to the average Allied firebase and still some way out isn't the brightest tactic. Nine times out of ten, if the defender was forewarned and reasonably competent, the attacking waves would be devastated by small arms fire, beehive/ splintex rounds etc as well as on call fire missions. It's unlikely any Vietnamese soldier with half a brain would be charging forward to place a bangalore, rather they would stealthily approach the obstacle,  blow the charge, then the rush to get through the wire and penetrate the defences would start.

That said, if you are intent on using bangalores or pole charges, then the distance should be minimal from the figure placing the charge. It's essentially a pipe filled with PE in the case of a modern bangalore or a charge at the end of a long stick. 

So in answer to your question, where the charges go off and how far it is from the defending forces is determined by how far out the wire is. Where the wire is, is where the bang is. The chap firing it  should probably be within an inch or two of the obstacle and the bangalore.

Hope that helps.
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Offline DS615

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2022, 03:03:32 PM »
If you would use a bangalore to blow of a wire fence, from how far away could this be done with clear line of sight across a paddy field (to stay in the ‘nam context)? More specifically, concerning the scenario we are going to play, would it be reasonable to say that the NVA charging the US firebase have to get within 15 “ to fire the bangalores effectively at the fences around the base or would this be completely off the mark?

Base contact with the wire.  0" away.
It's a placed bomb, not a "fired" weapon.
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Offline CapnJim

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2022, 05:02:10 PM »
How far away the the chap "firing" the bangalore is from it depends on how mush det cord/fuse cord he brought with him.  You want to be close enough to rush in immediately, but far enough away that you don't get caught in the blast.  As Carlos mentioned, detonating one of those buggers does indeed announce your presence!  Once the sapper(s) set off their torpedo(s) is when the defenders would open up with everything they had, also as Carlos mentioned.  That could include what he stated, as well as Claymore mines and foo-gas drums, as well.  Again, the NVA/VC need to be ready to rush the gap made by the torpedo ASAP, or it won't go well for them... 

Offline MartinShamutantis

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2022, 09:26:52 AM »
Ah! Now I get it. I kept thinking that a bangalore is firing short range missiles, which clearly is wrong. And yes, I am aware of the sneakiness involved, which will be reflected in the scenario, where the NVA force will be fielded in two groups with the first group having the jump on the US firebase and a second group following closely after, ideally taking over the firebase before the base defense is fully activated.

Thanks for the advice.

Cheers
Martin
   

Offline CapnJim

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Re: A Force on Force 'Nam question
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2022, 02:16:44 AM »
You may already know this, but if your scenario calls for an NVA/VC night attack, keep in mind the Free World defenders would have c-ration cans with stones in them tied to the wire (they jingle when they are moved), and there would be trip flares and trip-wire Claymores and grenades and such.  And once the defenders have wind of the attack, they usually had access to mortar-fired parachute flares.  Those things light up the night!

 

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