Lizardmen with Proper Weapons! (that is to say, swords)

[beefcake]

Iron wind metals have a bunch
https://www.ironwindmetals.com/index.php/product-listing?cid=0&searchword=lizard&0bfa29aa19a367ae8c1d3b41233e577a=1
I was hoping to link to the troglodyte range they had from this kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1050509756/ral-parthas-chaos-wars-dwarf-undead-troglodyte-min/description
But they don't seem to have them any more (there was a link to them in one of the update that no longer works)

[tikitang]

Thanks for those links; this one I like:

[Redmao]

That Otherworld lizardman is such a cool miniature, he deserves to be a character, not just a random nameless minion.

[Spooktalker]

(Ethelred beat me to it, but I’ll leave the first part in) Another possible source for lizard men equipped with metal gear is Mirliton Miniatures. https://www.mirliton.it/fantasy-25-28mm/lost-lizardmen-world

They have a couple of styles of lizard men. The ones with swords are in a few packs. I have a few of these from back when Grenadier made them, and they’re on the small side compared to current figs - definitely true-25mm - but very finely detailed figures.

I would like to second this recommendation of the John Dennet Grenadier ones, but respectfully disagree on the point of the size of them. They are quite large, even for 28mm. I have them in hand here and they are 28-35mm to the eyes, with an average of ~32. They are larger than some 25mm ogres, and if memory serves as large or even larger than the Ben Siens Reaper ones. I would guess the same goes for the Otherworld ones.

The pack labeled "hand weapons and shield" seem like they could be suitable for this need, though two would need to be converted. The hand weapon on the one second from left would be simple. The shields I'd suggest grinding them down with a full size flat file or rotary tool. Mirliton castings are lead, making this possible.

The Ral Partha ones, on the other hand, are indeed quite small, less than half of the mass of the Grenadier ones and scaled to match with the humans released 1979-1981. They are among the smallest lizardmen I own.

In my D&D I am using the older Grenadier AD&D gold line lizardmen as my main lizardmen encounter group and plan to use the Dennet ones as troglodytes, but with a boost to stats to reflect the robust stature of the figures.


Other quality options to consider are the Citadel Tom Meier greater troglodytes and RAFM Reptiliads.

The Citadel troglodytes are beautiful but command a suitably high street value.

The Reptiliads diverge a bit from the standard archetype with their long necks, but are large, well-sculpted and their arms and weapons are fully in line with humans, taking inspiration from Rome. However, in most (all?) cases their swords, when they have them, are sheathed in favor of pole arms as their primary arm. See the Legionaries in particular: https://www.nobleknight.com/P/2147373374/Reptiliad-Tanth-Legionaries

Here in the US a great source for them is Noble Knight (https://www.nobleknight.com/Products/Fantasy-Miniatures---Reptiliad-Legion-of-the-Iron-Tanth-RAFM), and in recent years they have restocked them frequently but sporadically. I've amassed a decent-sized army this way. On ebay, however, they have become a bit scarcer in recent years, but their street value remains low.

[Porsenna]

I'm a big fan of what can be done with the wargames atlantic lizardmen. Them being plastic open up a lot of doors for easy conversions and hand swaps.

https://wargamesatlantic.com/community/xenforum/topic/78923/the-great-lizard-horde

[tikitang]

I only just noticed these ones:

https://ralparthalegacy.com/collections/lizardmen/products/98-0184

Even though they are cavalry, these are EXACTLY what I am looking for. Their swords, shields, armour and even their mounts are perfect for my project concept.

My only concern is that I have heard the Ral Partha lizardmen are a little small (true 25mm I believe). Not to mention it would be expensive to get hold of these, seeing as I am based in the UK.

[Hobgoblin]

I only just noticed these ones:

https://ralparthalegacy.com/collections/lizardmen/products/98-0184

Even though they are cavalry, these are EXACTLY what I am looking for. Their swords, shields, armour and even their mounts are perfect for my project concept.

My only concern is that I have heard the Ral Partha lizardmen are a little small (true 25mm I believe). Not to mention it would be expensive to get hold of these, seeing as I am based in the UK.

I'm painting up a couple of these for Kings of War at the moment, and they're tiny. The riders are 20mm from the tip of their dangling feet to the top of their heads. Their eyes are only about 30mm from the ground when atop their mounts. So they're much smaller than the old Citadel/Ral Partha lizardmen/lesser troglodytes. They'd be (somewhat) imposing in 15mm scale.

[Major_Gilbear]

I'm going to be honest here... I don't think there are many cost-effective options of as-is models for you to make much more than a small party of figures from.  Especially when you take styles and sizes/scales into consideration.

That said, there are some possible options to get around this!

The best option for you I think is to find lizardmen that you like, and then buy swords and shields separately, and do some minor conversion work to put the weapons in the lizardmen's hands. It seems that there's lots of suitable options for you, so it's really only some weapons that you may need to source loose.

The other option is to see if there are any 3D-print options that you might like (or even commission?), and then see if you can get a commercial printer to make them for you (I'm assuming here you don't have a 3D printer...?). There are lots of people right here on LAF that I'm sure could help you with this if you wanted to put the call out.

After that... Well, you'll have to make do and pay whatever it takes to gradually and eventually scrape together what you can. I personally think this is a best way to kill off any enthusiasm you have for the project, as this is a slow and frustrating way to go about things. I mean, I don't mind doing this myself to some degree (at least on a collector basis), but there are some projects I had to shelve over the years because they were so cost/time prohibitive to acquire.

Finally, my own modest suggestion for your consideration in terms of minis: the old 5th edition Warhammer Fantasy plastic lizardmen Saurus Warriors. They are a bit so-so, and many have clubs and such made of wood/bone, but there are many with metal swords, axes, and shields too. Since they are plastic, it's easy enough to modify or swap out the weapons on the ones with the "wrong" weapons, and they are pretty cheap on ebay - blob some Biostrip20 on them for a day and then give them a scrub in hot soapy water with an old toothbrush, and you're good to go.

[Hobgoblin]

The best option for you I think is to find lizardmen that you like, and then buy swords and shields separately, and do some minor conversion work to put the weapons in the lizardmen's hands. It seems that there's lots of suitable options for you, so it's really only some weapons that you may need to source loose.

On that note: the Wargames Atlantic lizardmen would take human-sized weaponry from any plastic historical kit; they come with just one sword/machete per sprue, but their weapons are quite realistically proportioned. So you could easily cement in Warlord Games Arab scimitars or the like (weapons rather than hands, as the lizardmen have only three fingers and a thumb). Also, they come with a full set of heads for several different species on each sprue - chameleons, monitors and iguanas. You might find a 'look' that works for you among them.

Meanwhile, the Lancer lizardmen with macuahuitl/klanth-type weapons come with separate hands and shields. So you could quite easily swap in human hands and weapons (from, e.g., Frostgrave or Oathmark sprues - that more heroic style would work better than historicals, I think). I've got some on the painting/assembly desk at the moment, so can check out compatible bits for you if that's any use. I can't recall how many fingers they have, but the left hand gets covered by the shield in any case, so it would be very simple to add proper swords and higher-tech shields. The wrists on the sword-arms have a socket to take the hand, which would allow you to get a secure join with a whittled-down forearm and some Gorilla glue (or whatever). I suspect Frostgrave snakemen hands would fit perfectly (think I may have done this with one yet-to-be-painted individual - I had a whole lot lined up to be Shen from Tekumel, but our D&D campaign had moved on before the miniatures were required!).

Major Gilbear's suggestion is a good one too - those old GW lizardmen are nice and easily converted (big hands for drilling or a solid poly-cement join!).

[tikitang]

Thanks for all the clever suggestions! I'm certainly not averse to a bit of conversion and modification if required.

I'm painting up a couple of these for Kings of War at the moment, and they're tiny. The riders are 20mm from the tip of their dangling feet to the top of their heads.

Ah! That definitely wouldn't work for my purposes, as I'm keen to stay within the 28-32mm scale and the lizardmen I want should be at least man-height, perhaps a tad larger (certainly in terms of bulk). It's a shame as, based on the rather blurry and poorly lit photo, they do look perfect in form!

I'm going to be honest here... I don't think there are many cost-effective options of as-is models for you to make much more than a small party of figures from.

That's really quite all right. To be slightly clearer as to my "vision", I'm not looking to make a fully fledged warband of lizardmen with unique looking individuals; even just one model that I could buy multiples of would be adequate for my purposes, like the "clones" that used to come packed in dungeon-crawling board games, such as Warhammer Quest.

As such, I am thinking the Otherworld WE5a might be the best option after all. He's a bit under-dressed and I'd prefer if he had a scimitar rather than a broadsword, but I could let that detail go as I don't fancy a conversion job on the blade - more trouble than it's worth!

[Major_Gilbear]

To be slightly clearer as to my "vision", I'm not looking to make a fully fledged warband of lizardmen with unique looking individuals; even just one model that I could buy multiples of would be adequate for my purposes, like the "clones" that used to come packed in dungeon-crawling board games, such as Warhammer Quest

Ah, well, in that case... What about the old Hero Quest Fimir? A simple head-swap and the scimitar from an Orc (the ones in your WHQ picture), and you're there. They're not even expensive or difficult to get hold of, especially if you just need a few.

[Redmao]

Anybody mentionned Massive Darkness Reptasaurians by CMON?

[LoxIslay]

Cool dynamic poses 

[tikitang]

Ah, well, in that case... What about the old Hero Quest Fimir? A simple head-swap and the scimitar from an Orc (the ones in your WHQ picture), and you're there. They're not even expensive or difficult to get hold of, especially if you just need a few.

Certainly doable, but now's probably a good time to mention that my preference is to avoid plastics wherever possible (I'm more of a metals man), and certainly not 90s plastics. The only reason I mentioned Warhammer Quest was the way in which identical miniatures were used throughout to represent a group of monsters, but not the specific aesthetics of that time (which I used to adore, but no longer).

The way this project of mine is taking shape (which at the moment is still only in the realm of abstract ideas), I believe I might well be using Grenadier miniatures across the board, for all required models. As such, I'm leaning more and more toward the Iguanids from Mirliton:



Specifically, the chap on the left with the curved blade. I reckon by cutting off and filing down the oddly-shaped spikes on his shield, so that it's perfectly smooth, I will have something more or less what I'm looking for, but also in the correct scale. 

[tikitang]

For the record, I think I'm leaning back toward the Otherworld Miniature from my original post!

As a side-note:

I was having a quick rummage through Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1st Edition (1986) this evening and found this image from the Lizardman entry in the Bestiary:



This whole "turtle shell shield" business goes back a long way it seems! I'm sure there are older examples, but that might be the first one ever employed in a Warhammer publication (that I am aware of).

I find it strange that a society of sentient creatures with the knowledge and skill to produce swords (quite an advanced technological achievement, comparatively) relies on turtle-shells for shields. I'm sure they're very strong, but it just seems odd.

I did some quick Google research to see if this was ever a thing in real life, and discovered some interesting bits and pieces. Conrad Gessner (16th century Swiss scientist), describes how strong the turtle-shell is in his History of Four-Footed Beasts and Serpents (1607):

It is not without great cause that this shell is called Scutum, and the Beast Scutellaria, for there is no buckler and shield so hard and strong as this is. And Palladius was not deceived when he wrote thereof, that upon the same might safely passe over a Cart-wheel, the Cart being loaded.

Also, this interesting 17th century woodcut by German artist Johann Wilhelm Bauer depicting South American tribesmen battling each other with various weapons, several of which are armed with turtle-shell shields:



Whether or not the artist ever witnessed such a battle, or if this is a reliable depiction based on eye-witness accounts, I'm not certain, but most of the weapons here are, appropriately, wooden clubs, bones and rocks - the sort of weapon I'd expect to see wielded alongside a turtle-shell shield. That said, there are a couple of the "Indians" bearing what look like poignards of some description, which seem more technologically advanced.

Also, apparently there is an obscure martial art in Japan, still practiced today, entitled Tinbe-rochin where practitioners fight with a short spear and a turtle-shell shield:

 

So maybe it's not so far-fetched after all?

In any case, the lizardmen I want to use for my project definitely don't use turtle-shell shields!