Your opinions on Citadel Contrast, Vallejo Xpress & Army Painter Speed Paints?

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

There is a lot of buzz in the hobby media (e.g. YouTube) about contrast paints etc

There is even a new name for this "Slap Chop".
This starts with black undercoat then overbrush mid grey then drybrush white.
I have done this in the past using Citadel Washes and inks and liked the results.

These are 3D resin prints from the Aliens Versus Humans Kickstarter.





Are the new paints significantly better than using Citadel Washes?

If yes, which is best - Citadel Contrast, Vallejo Xpress & Army Painter Speed Paints?

Thanks in advance

Mick

[DivisMal]

I have stocked up GW contrast paints-quite pricy, but I have used the same technique as you usng washes and inks over preshaded models and with contrast paints you get excellent new effects and they cover better.

The Army Painter stuff I avoided after reading from several users that the paints activate again if touched by water/another color.
Vellejo might be a good middle ground, but my local shop didn’t have them yet.

[fred]

I’ve only used GW Contrast paints - and I’m impressed with them. I’ve slowly built up my stock of colours, generally going for more muted natural ones. They give great coverage - which is probably the biggest difference to a wash. They also go on very quickly and easily due to being very thin, but not drippy. And then you get decent shading from a single coat.

The only one I’ve been disappointed in is the dark grey - its probably too dark.

I have played with mixing the colours and this works well.

Varying the shade / tone of the base coat gives slightly different final colours too.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Thank-you both

[Storm Wolf]

I use the citadel contrast also, mainly over a like coloured basecoat or if I want some contrasting effect with a different base colour etc. However I do have speedpaints and I use them for extra colour depth especially the red, blue and yellow.
And as mentioned you do need to seal-it so it doesn't bleed through  again, for this I use matt-acrylic varnish (un-thinned).

Happy painting 

Glen

[fastolfrus]

The Army Painter stuff I avoided after reading from several users that the paints activate again if touched by water/another color.

We have a few Citadel contrast paints, haven't tried the new Valejhos yet, but we do have the AP speed paints.
We heard about the possible reactivation, so followed the simple precaution of getting some cheap plastic art palettes, the ones with dimples round the outside to put paint in. We used a permanent felt tip pen to write the colour names next to each dimple, and now when we use them we put a few drops into the dimple on the palette. If old paint in the dimple reactivates, none gets wasted, so that's a plus in our book.
Does it reactivate? To a limited extent. In the dimple some colours do, but not completely.
On the figures we have painted? Not that we've really noticed. We try to do one careful coat and don't stray over the edges (happens a bit, always does, but who doesn't occasionally go over the edge?) and provided you allow the different coats to dry it doesn't cause any real problems. This week we've done 60 C17th 28mm in 2 2-hour painting sessions. Not quite finished, but another 2 hours might get us there. (there are 2 of us batch painting together).
We will spray varnish when they are done (allowing a good week to fully dry before we spray).
The "Hardened leather" colour really suits us for fast paint jobs on cavalry units, no messing with black-grey-white base, just rattle them into white primer before we start. I have no issues fielding lots of brown horses, especially when I'm putting them out in units of 12 (just keeping the command distinctive).
If you repeatedly go over some of them with a brush it might be more of an issue, but I think they were designed/intended for mass batch-painting, not "triad" painting (base, highlight, drybrush etc)
Just an opinion.

[ced1106]

> There is a lot of buzz in the hobby media (e.g. YouTube) about contrast paints etc

There's always buzz -- and then it fades away. Except the hundred bucks you spent for the paints is gone.

Anyone remember Scale 75? Was supposed to be another must-have paint brand. Big deal on a Dakka thread during the KS. Now, nobody talks about it.

Me, I use colored primers then a wash, followed by hobby paints for details. Sometimes I'll use craft paint as an undercoat (and for zenithal "priming", followed by a dark wash), and I use craft paints in the lid as wet palettes. Colored primers and craft paints are less expensive per ounce than hobby paints, especially when USA Air Supply has a sale on colored primers. Best part is that you can ease into this slowly (you probably already have brown craft paints for basing and terrain, now use it when you paint wood) so aren't making major purchases. I suspect that with speedpaint, I'll still take awhile since I paint to advanced tabletop and paint eyes, highlights, details, etc.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Thank-you everybody.

@Cedric - I don't minding spending money on new paints if It allows me to get better results.
At the moment, I am not convinced that Contrast paints will make a big difference over using Citadel Shade Washes.
I think I will have to buy a few and try.

Please continue to to give your opinions and tips on this style of paint and its use.

[WorkShy]

As someone who has only been back in the hobby for 9 months or so, I've found Contrast paints really useful to help speed up painting my dark age minis. For items such as leather, cloaks, tunics etc, I just find a single coat of a Contrast paint can get the job done. It's probably helped me get from 30 mins per mini down to sub 20 mins per mini. I don't care about the price. Time is more important than money. I've found that a combination of Pro acryl paints + Vallejo Air (both brushed on straigtht out of the dropper since they don't need thinning) plus Contrast paints is a time saver. 

What contrast paints are not is "one thick coat and done" as Citadel seem to advertise. They just can't do everything. Contrast paints don't really help me with mail armour and hemets. They can be too bright and a bit too shiny for historical stuff.

They also fall into three clear categories. The ones which are really just washes. The ones that are quite opaque and just heavily pigmented paints / inks. It's only the third set that are really contrast paints. I've bought about 20 different colours but only a handful I really find essential and I use on every mini.

[Major_Gilbear]

What contrast paints are not is "one thick coat and done" as Citadel seem to advertise. They just can't do everything. Contrast paints don't really help me with mail armour and hemets. They can be too bright and a bit too shiny for historical stuff.

They also fall into three clear categories. The ones which are really just washes. The ones that are quite opaque and just heavily pigmented paints / inks. It's only the third set that are really contrast paints. I've bought about 20 different colours but only a handful I really find essential and I use on every mini.

Interesting, as that's pretty much been my own observation too. Out of curiosity, which 20 or so paints make your "essential" list please?

On costs... Contrast is actually quite competitive if you mostly do one layer and then pick out details. This is because one or two coats plus a few extreme highlights uses and wastes much less paint than more traditional methods, which offsets it higher starting cost. Plus, potentially, the time saved too. However, as soon as Contrast is essentially reduced in function to a basecoat, and then you shade/wash/highlight/etc as normal afterwards, you've not really gained all that much over just using the normal paints you already have.

Speedpaint does reactivate, and more than many care to admit. I experienced this with certain paints many years ago; it was a tedious and frustrating, and I have no desire whatsoever to ever use acrylic paints or inks that reactivate (even slightly) ever again. I know plenty of people get on with it just fine, but I don't think they are for everyone. I would certainly ensure people are aware of this too, as it's not fun to find out after you've bought and used them...

I have no experience of the Vallejo offerings, so will wait for general release to see.

Anyone remember Scale 75? Was supposed to be another must-have paint brand. Big deal on a Dakka thread during the KS. Now, nobody talks about it.

Well, past a certain point, everything to say has been said, and those who are interested enough have bought some and tried them out. After that, anybody new who's curious can still read the earlier reviews and/or buy some themselves. So really, I'd be more surprised if a particular paint range carried on provoking discussion many years later! For what it's worth, I have owned and used a few Scale 75 paints for a while now, and bought some more a few months ago - they do a lot of great "neutral" colours, and their bright colours (blues especially) are particularly vibrant.

[tomrommel1]

I use Contrast paints since they came out and used them steadily since then on preshaded miniatures. I combine this technique with the layering technique and like the rersults  . I haven#t used the xpress from Vallejo, I tried the speed paints but got rid of them again as they activate each other and with water again.

[zemjw]

I've been using contrast paints mainly for fantasy minis, and I've been happy with the results.

It's not quite "one and done", but close enough. Painting large monsters with what are essentially washes is so much quicker, and looks just as good (tabletop standard, let's not get carried away).

As noted, they do vary in opacity and brightness, but the good ones are well worth the time saved. It has let me paint several groups (pink horrors, beastmen) that I have avoided for years due to the pain of painting them in a more traditional fashion.

I've stayed away from speedpaints, due to the reactivation reputation.

I haven't seen the Vallejo ones, but I will be trying them when I find them

[Cypher226]

Anyone remember Scale 75? Was supposed to be another must-have paint brand. Big deal on a Dakka thread during the KS. Now, nobody talks about it.

Much the same as any paint line - once the community figures out which colours have the most useful formulation, they're the ones that crop up over and over again.  At the moment Proacryl bold titanium white is the new hotness, but Scale75 still get mentioned a lot for the metallics.

to answer OP though - I've only used contrast but some colours are definitely better than others.  The new Black Legion is better than Black Templar as well.  They're another tool in the box and can save considerable time, but not a be-all and end-all.

[Brummie]

I have only used the Citadel Contrast paints, and I would say they're very hit and miss.

Increasingly I'm repainting (or adding to) a lot of minis I initially speed painted with contrast.

Where I do use them, its either as an ink wash or a base layer for modern/sci fi camo uniforms.

That said a few of the contrasts are very good. The Blood Angels Red is fantastic for instance and is a perfect base.

[Vanth]

I have been using Contrast and am now using Vallejo Xpress. I very much prefer the latter to the former: I find them consistent through the whole line, which can't be said of Contrast, and are much better at levelling so that if you apply them properly you won't have the odd staining that quite often Contrast leave on flat surfaces. They only cost about half... This about using them "as intended", ie with a single coat over the primer or the undercoat. I don't do drybrushing if possible, but I do a zenithal and over this a b/w sketch. I love that they have a consistency that allows you to go both ways, adding a second layer to increase saturation or diluting them up to the thinnest of glazes. They also work beautifully as a glaze through the airbrush for filtering or postshading. They are a staple in my workflow now.