Mordheim house rules that work well?

[Hobgoblin]

Like the Dwarf Master of Blades skill? Would you up the cost of shields for the additional benefits opening up the costed for in-game effect rather than cost to produce in reality can of worms?

I was thinking that a 'super-parry' would replace a save for the shield (and would apply against missiles too). I'd probably keep shields cheap - if only because so many of the miniatures I own have them!

Parry is an interesting one. There’s an argument that it should not just be limited to swords, bucklers & Dwarf axes. I think it’s makes more sense to have it as a skill useable with any weapon. Perhaps even one that’s automatically available to anyone who’s sufficiently skilled/trained. WS4?

Yes, that's a good idea - not least because it would reduce a lot of the henchman-related rolling. I think one could also simplify things a bit by dropping most or all of the distinctions between 'hand weapons' in the Warhammer sense. This would make assembling henchman groups easier and avoid some of the rules that tend to be forgotten in the heat of melee (axe modifiers to saves; sword parries; and club/mace/hammer stunning).

TBH, there are plenty of things that could be changed to make Mordheim more balanced and/or realistic. I haven’t found the system to be sufficiently broken to prompt me to do so and deal with all the knock-on effects yet.

Yeah, I don't think it's broken at all and have enjoyed all the games we've played so far.

My 'fighting retreats' rule goes in seamlessly, so that's the only tweak we've used to date. I do wonder if improving armour and shields might have a net beneficial effect - allowing smaller, heavily armoured warbands to be viable (so more variety) and balancing dual wielding and two-handed weapons (which become more valuable when armour's more effective). But the game does play well as is.

[Elbows]

Mordheim is definitely "breakable".  I'm sad to admit I quit the game (after investing a lot of time building for it) after a few weekends of play.  I played it many many moons ago when it launched and was happy to start again...but then I remembered how awry it can go.

It's not necessarily a matter of mechanics, but it suffers like many "campaign" style skirmish games do - in power creep.

It's exceptionally easy to pick-n-choose the best warbands, and if you're not both on the same page, it can go sideways really quick.  Warbands with poor initiative or speed are all but helpless, and all it takes is one or two powerful characters to make it really unfun.

I tried dwarfs and undead, both slow and low initiative.  The armour wasn't enough to save the dwarfs, and you're outrun in every scenario.  My buddy had some high BS characters with ranged weapons and it was basically game over.  The only way to compete was to powergame in response, something I'm not interested in.

Stuff like Skaven slingers are notorious simply because you could cheaply field 8-10 of them with 18"(?) slings for dirt cheap, etc.  The elf warbands were included in various Mordheim groups or the Citadel journal and were more or less outlawed - even by the people who wrote them up.

There's plenty to criticise about Mordheim, but it's easiest to simply play with people who are of a like mind and will avoid the power gaming nonsense (unless you're all into it).

[Hobgoblin]

Mordheim is definitely "breakable".  I'm sad to admit I quit the game (after investing a lot of time building for it) after a few weekends of play.  I played it many many moons ago when it launched and was happy to start again...but then I remembered how awry it can go.

I suppose the upside is that Mordheim terrain is perfect for most skirmish games. I'm restarting last year's building programme (lots begun; only a few ruins finished), safe in the knowledge that if we do tire of Mordheim, the terrain will be great for Song of Blades, etc. I'm also keen to try a table-top-confined RPG experience with miniatures - possibly using Savage Worlds.

It's not necessarily a matter of mechanics, but it suffers like many "campaign" style skirmish games do - in power creep.

Yeah, that's a side of it we haven't experienced yet, as we've only played single games and a couple of short "mini-campaigns".

It's exceptionally easy to pick-n-choose the best warbands, and if you're not both on the same page, it can go sideways really quick. Warbands with poor initiative or speed are all but helpless, and all it takes is one or two powerful characters to make it really unfun.

I'm hoping that WYSIWYG is the best defence here - especially with high-cost armour taking a toll cost-wise (whether or not we make it more effective). That's why I'm keen to have WYSIWYG trump the official lists; I don't think armoured goblins or verminkin halberdiers will break the game, but they might help to balance it - by forcing people to buy more expensive troops.

I tried dwarfs and undead, both slow and low initiative.  The armour wasn't enough to save the dwarfs, and you're outrun in every scenario.  My buddy had some high BS characters with ranged weapons and it was basically game over.  The only way to compete was to powergame in response, something I'm not interested in.

Interesting. With dwarfs, didn't you benefit from the universal T4? In our games so far, orcs have had a huge advantage simply because they're so hard to kill. In our very first game, a lone orc managed to tie up three verminkin with spears for the entire scenario; they knocked him down two or three times, but they failed to finish him off, even with free hits. I can see that the short moves don't help, though.

Undead do get very fast-moving options with dire wolves (they can't run, but they have a 9" basic move and an 18" charge) and the vampire, though. They're a warband I've been itching to try as I have some dire wolves, zombies and ghouls ready to go - just need a vampire (I have the old Citadel Elric lined up but might convert an interim one)! Were you very zombie-heavy?

Stuff like Skaven slingers are notorious simply because you could cheaply field 8-10 of them with 18"(?) slings for dirt cheap, etc.  The elf warbands were included in various Mordheim groups or the Citadel journal and were more or less outlawed - even by the people who wrote them up.

Yes - we haven't found Skaven slingers overwhelming so far, but they are very affordable. We're constrained here by how many I can convert and paint up: at the moment, we only have three. No one has shown an interest in elves so far, so I'll heed your advice and keep it that way! So far, we're looking at orcs (possibly more than one warband), Skaven, Cult of the Possessed, Norscan marauders, beastmen, mercenaries (again, perhaps more than one) and potentially undead.

There's plenty to criticise about Mordheim, but it's easiest to simply play with people who are of a like mind and will avoid the power gaming nonsense (unless you're all into it).

Right. Yes, we're all keen on WYSIWYG (within reason) and the evolving narrative - and, perhaps surprisingly, the financial-management side of things. Even in our four-game mini-campaign, we were already getting groans about the upkeep of an ogre bodyguard ...