Advice on Spanish cazadores ratio required

[olicana]

Okay, so I have the books to do this but, given I do most things to feel, what proportion of cazadores battalions do you think I should do in comparison to the overall army size.

Year is 1810-13-ish.

My army collection size is '20 units / battalions' of infantry.

My chosen game scale is 'army', so one unit equals about 1600 men (1 unit per brigade-ish).

I'm thinking five of the twenty should be cazadores (1:4) but, would four be better (1:5)?

I know, minor point / decision but....

I'm down to six infantry left to paint so this question is pressing now. Advice appreciated.

[IronDuke596]

I would go with the historical organization of the Portuguese Army that Beresford started to organize in late 1809.

As of 1812 there were 24 Portuguese regular regiments each of two battalions. Also, there were 12 cazadore battalions. So, the ratio is one to four.

By September 1809 Beresford organized the regiments into twelve brigades each of two regular regiments (four battalions) and one cazadore battalion. The regiments allocated to their respective brigades (e.g. 1st Brigade: 1st & 16th regulars plus 4th Cazadores)  are listed in Table 1-22 of "In the Words of Wellington's Fighting Cocks: The After Action Reports of The Portuguese Army During The Peninsular War 1812-14".

I continue to be fascinated with your wonderful progress reports. Thank you.

[olicana]

Thanks ID.

It's a toss up I guess, between 1:5 and 1:4. Only having 20 units is the problem - i.e. deciding what will be more 'game useful' overall. If I had 24 I'd almost certainly have 6 (1:4) and that would still leave me with 18 line.

Like my British and French I didn't go with any particular OOB, units in my collection just had to be in theatre sometime between 1809 - 1814. It was easier to do proportions with them because I did 28 close order 24 man (plus skirmish stands) infantry units for each army. Of those the British have five light (plus five smaller units of rifles and cazadores), the French have 8-10 units of legere - Hannovrienne and Du Midi are uniformed in line infantry coats and knee length gaiters so I can fudge them as line units if my needs require.

The Spanish sometimes put a lot of their cazadores battalions into a separate division, usually calling it the vanguard division or some such, and there seems to be a lot of them kicking about overall. I think I'll have to do five and add four or five more units (one more cazadores) to the collection at some point.

I also have a self made problem, regarding ratios, because of my game scale. I play army level games, with divisions as command groups where each 24 man unit represents 1,200 - 2000 men (each four stand unit has a strength value of 3-5 with 4 as the average, 400 men per point). At that scale, a typical British division (just over 5000 strong) is represented by three units; two 4 strength British units and one 5 strength Portuguese unit. When the game is being played, although each unit is actually brigade strength, units operate like battalions - which is what I've always called bath tubbing, though there seem to be various definitions of what that is. It does mean some fudging when it comes to ratios which is why line might be more useful in game terms. Ho-hum, it is what it is.

[vtsaogames]

Heresy: when you need something for a scenario, mark a line unit as light or vice-versa. I do it when needed. After all, generals couldn't see that the unit behind the hill (or several miles away) was light troops or not. At Brordino the French didn't say those are only 10,000 militia armed with pikes, they saw lots of troops on the hill.

I even have units from other nations stand in: Dutch-Belgians for Portuguese, Nassau troops for various Confederation of the Rhine, etc.

[vexillia]

I'm thinking five of the twenty should be cazadores (1:4) but, would four be better (1:5)?

Careful:

     5 of 20 is a ratio of 1:3 (5:15) not 1:4

Likewise:

     4 of 20 is a ratio of 1:4 (4:16) not 1:5

[olicana]

Hi Martin,

Yes, I should have said 1 in 4 (5 of 20), or 1 in 5 (4 of 20).

Damn you, semantic pedant.

[VonAkers]

Hi Olicana
Sorry I am a bit confused.
Your first post says  Spanish Cazadores ..
Then Iron Duke talks about  Portuguese Cacadores..
Which is it ..??
Cheers

[VonAkers]

Hi Olicana
Having re read the Post looks like you are Talking Spanish .

If I was doing 20 Battalions this is how I would do it .

2 x Cazadores
2 x Light
1 x Guard
1 x Converged Grenadiers
2 x Militia
2 x Volunteers
12 x Line
Both the Militia and Light units can Sub In for Line units .
Cheers

[IronDuke596]

Good grief! VonAkers is correct, I was indeed commenting on Portuguese cazadores. My apologies to Olicana and all.
VonAkers, your suggestion seems sound.

[olicana]

No probs,

honestly, virtually no one does mid war Spanish so I'm not surprised that any post about them is misconstrued: I often find myself thinking, Mid war Spanish, why?

[vexillia]

Hi Martin,

Yes, I should have said 1 in 4 (5 of 20), or 1 in 5 (4 of 20).

Damn you, semantic pedant.

You know me so well.