Mordheim + Realms of Chaos? Anyone tried it? (first warband members)

[Hobgoblin]

This can't be an original thought, surely - but has anyone tried playing Mordheim with one or more Realms of Chaos warbands?

I can't remember how powerful RoC warbands are to start with (stronger than Mordheim warbands, I'd have thought, though sometimes oddly crippled), but the way Mordheim deftly exploits the ponderous Warhammer statline makes it an ideal match for the detail in RoC bands.

The psychological stats would have to be flattened to Ld (which just means ignoring Cl, Int and Wp), but everything else is ready to go, I'd have thought.

[JollyBob]

I would imagine it would be eminently playable. As you say, the stat lines are compatible and the Mordheim system offers much more scope for individual combat and development.

The only thing I would say is that any campaign system might be a challenge as if I recall correctly, followers are allocated to champions in RoC by a random dice roll.
You could lose a useful chaos warrior in one battle and have him replaced with a mutant blobfish!

[JollyBob]

In fact you've now got me wanting to dig out and complete all my original RoC warbands that I studiously collected then placed in the box of shame. 

[Citizen Sade]

We’ve used the Mordheim rules with a RoC skin for a BOYL weekend. It was points based as RoC rolls can create some very unbalanced warbands. Some of our players really don’t like having an uncompetitive warband from the get go, but yours might be more open to it.

We used WYSIWYG Oldhammer figures. My Slaaneshi mob, for example, was mainly marked Goodwin beastmen. I also fielded a couple of suitable chaos warriors, a champion, one of the chaos sorcerers plus a few other bits & bobs. Due to all the armour and mutations in the RoC figure range, we bumped up the points for starting warbands.

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks, both - great points!

The only thing I would say is that any campaign system might be a challenge as if I recall correctly, followers are allocated to champions in RoC by a random dice roll.
You could lose a useful chaos warrior in one battle and have him replaced with a mutant blobfish!

I'd very much see that as a feature rather than a bug! 

Some of our players really don’t like having an uncompetitive warband from the get go, but yours might be more open to it.

Yeah, I think ours would be fine with it - especially in a multiplayer game. I'm imagining pitting proper Mordheim warbands against RoC ones, so the former could benefit from 'optimised' profiles (knife and club, Skaven slings, etc.) while the latter would tend to be more 'battlefield equipped' and possibly much more powerful (D4 ogres! D4 minotaurs!).

There might be a decision to be made as to whether any beastmen are old-school two-wound types (as in the Cult of the Possessed) or weedier, single-wound types (as in the Mordheim beastman warband).

[Dubbya]

It might fall apart if you allow magic! (Again, maybe a feature more than a bug...)

[Hobgoblin]

It might fall apart if you allow magic! (Again, maybe a feature more than a bug...)

Yes, indeed - I think chaos sorcerers and such like would have to be replaced with Mordheim-style human warlocks (or maybe CotP magisters).

[tikitang]

This can't be an original thought, surely - but has anyone tried playing Mordheim with one or more Realms of Chaos warbands?

There was something called Path to Glory for Warhammer (6th Edition) Skirmish (same system as Mordheim) which was exactly this. Having a hard time finding it, though, as there's an Age of Sigmar supplement with the same name which dominates any Google searches for it.

[Hobgoblin]

There was something called Path to Glory for Warhammer (6th Edition) Skirmish (same system as Mordheim) which was exactly this. Having a hard time finding it, though, as there's an Age of Sigmar supplement with the same name which dominates any Google searches for it.

Ah - right! I wonder how close to RoC it was, particularly with regard to the range of available followers.

For me, the attraction of RoC is the potential excuse to dig out Fimir, half-orcs, hobgoblins and the like!

[Hobgoblin]

Well, I took 10 minutes out of lunchtime to roll up a RoC warband. Here's what I got:

Champion: normal human profile with four arms and frenzy (which affects all his followers)

Followers (with a roll of 6 for chaos attributes each time):

11 humans (chaos cultists) with beweaponed extremities as a dominant attribute (half get +1 attack with +1 S and -1 I). I initially rolled on the wrong table and got 'enormously fat', so I might apply that to the other half if time presents itself. Or I might just split five off and give them bows.

5 Skaven with irrational hatred of elves and prehensile tails (extra attack for half of them). That latter roll was very convenient, as I've got a couple of sprues of night runners with weapons in their tails.

So ... the warband is quite big and well equipped by Mordheim standards (17 members and lots of light armour and shields). The frenzy trait makes them all quite a fierce combination, particularly given that 9 of the 17 will have multiple attacks already.

On the other hand, they'll have a maximum of six missile-users (if I give the champion a bow or whatever) and they're all T3, W1. And WS and BS are 3 all round. So, for 500 crowns, I could certainly get a Skaven warband that would match up (15 members, including an assassin adept, two Black Skaven and two night runners, all with slings and two weapons, plus 10 verminkin with clubs and daggers). The Skaven would have the edge in speed and initiative, more members with double attacks (until frenzy kicks in) and a higher rate of fire - plus more close-combat prowess in the adept and Black Skaven.

So - I reckon I'll built out the RoC warband and see how I get on!

[Hobgoblin]

Quickly kit bashed the three Skaven without prehensile tails (the others will involve a delicate tail swap with the night runners). I've forfeited their light armour - robes matter more for a chaos cult!

[Hobgoblin]

(Not sure why attached images don't show up any more - does anyone know how this can be done now?)

[Citizen Sade]

Ah - right! I wonder how close to RoC it was, particularly with regard to the range of available followers.

It was very much built around GW's chaos range at the time and more constrained than RoC.

Every warband was led by a champion whose profile and equipment would allow him to go toe-to-toe out with a Mordheim vampire. Followers were rolled for on a couple of tables. D3 chaos warriors is an example from table 1 and a single chaos troll is one from the other.

[Hobgoblin]

Right - so no random groups of Slann or halflings!

One change I'd impose on the RoC retinue tables is to give a 50% chance of 'exotica' rather than a 1% one. So, roll an initial d100 - 1 to 50, roll as normal; 51+, roll on the 00 'other' tables.

[Diablo Jon]

A couple of issues I can see reducing the LD, CL, WP and INT to just LD is that lots of the chaos mutations gave bonuses or reductions to those stats and Champions of Slaanesh were gifted +1 WP as there starting gift which is a bit redundant if you don't use WP. Also iirc WP was needed for controling Desmond swords. So you'd have to find a work around to that.

Magic is if recall quite different between 3rd edition WHFB and Mordheim so you'll need a work around for that it would be a shame to lose the Power specific spells from Realms of Chaos. Oddly a number of the 3rd edition spells would probably work better in a Mordheim scale game than they did in a 3rd edition  mass battle.

What advantages are you getting from playing Mordheim over just playing 3rd edition WHFB with the Realms of Chaos books?