down and dirty skirmish rules

[Lancer]

Looking for an ancient skirmish ruleset that really is 1 to 1 with wounding like right arm wounded minus for throwing javelin, knocked out etc etc bit like the old featherstone skirmish.  about 6-12 figures a side. if it can handle chariots all the better

[has.been]

Try looking at some of the (many) Gladiatorial rules out there.

[Hobgoblin]

Have a look at Mythras (you can download the free, basic version Mythras Imperative here). It's an RPG based on RuneQuest but with all kinds of additions that make it a very tactical tabletop game.

So, while RuneQuest has all the hit-location/disabled-limb stuff that you're after, Mythras allows you many more tactical choices as to how you apply critical hits ("special effects"). You can choose to try to knock someone down or break their weapon or wound a specific location, and so on.

It's designed for fantasy, but with a very rigorously researched and 'authentic' ancient-world feel - so all the appropriate sorts of amour and weapons should be present and correct.

The publishers sell a few combat scenarios; I've played through one, and it worked really well as a straight-up tabletop skirmish with a handful of figures per side.

[Easy E]

Tooting my own horn here!  Toot-toot.

Take a look at Homer's Heroes: Bronze Age Bad Boys on the Wargame Vault.

- Chariots? Check
- Individual Combat resolution? Check
- Injury impacting stats? Check

However, it is focused on "Homeric" combat with options for Mythical monsters, magic, and Gifts from the Gods. This might not work so well with say, EIR era skirmish.
 

[Inkpaduta]

Go ahead a toot Easy. It sounds like a great set of rules.

[Brewis]

I played a lot with "Mortal Gods" rules from Footsore Miniatures during Covid restriction and amused with it.
I don't like Phalanx system managed by this ruleset, but not indispensable.
No chariots unfortunately.

[mellis1644]

Looking for an ancient skirmish ruleset that really is 1 to 1 with wounding like right arm wounded minus for throwing javelin, knocked out etc etc bit like the old featherstone skirmish.  about 6-12 figures a side. if it can handle chariots all the better

You may be better looking at roleplaying games - such as Savageworlds, Gurps or Rolemaster.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Like Mellis, I thought of Rolemaster.  Possibly would need quite a bit of paperwork to have 12 figures per side, but with critical hits and critical fumbles it is fun.
My favourite was "You stumble over an unseen imaginary deceased turtle".

[ced1106]

Too bad Lost Worlds is, well, lost and mostly OOP.

"Play requires two players and at least two "visual combat books", with each player choosing a character (i.e., a book) from those available. At the start of play, each player removes the character sheet for that character from their book and hands the book to his or her opponent. The character sheet lists the various combat actions which the character can take during the battle. The combat book lists the effects of the attacks in tables, and serves as a visual reference for what the other player is doing. Hence, each player views entries in the book from a first-person perspective, seeing only their opponent and not themselves.

During each turn or combat phase, players secretly select an action from those shown on their card, possibly influenced by the results of previous turns. Players then simultaneously reveal their intended action, by number, to each other. Using the character sheet to cross-reference their action with that of their opponent, players then turn to a specific entry in the book they are holding in order to determine the results. These effects may include hit point loss (i.e., a wound), as well as any restrictions on the opponent's next move (which is read aloud to them). The first character to reduce their opponent to zero hit points wins.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/queensblade/images/4/4d/5324047020110211163902022_640.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150930140701

[Lancer]

Thankyou very much for some brilliant ideas, will sift through them until I find something that suits. Hadn't thought about roleplaying games, in 50 years of wargaming its not something I have touched, never too old maybe.

[tikitang]

Have a look at Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

Like Hobgoblin suggests with Mythras, if you ignore about 90% of the book and just look at the COMBAT section, there's a solid method of fighting tabletop skirmishes between a small handful of miniatures per side, with detailed injury effects.

Obviously, it's fantasy, BUT, there's a handy tool inside the book which allows you to convert regular Warhammer battle stat-lines into Warhammer roleplay stat-lines. That being the case, all you need to do is get yourself a copy of Warhammer Ancient Battles: Chariot Wars for some ancients profiles, convert them into RPG mode, and you're ready to go.

If that sounds too complicated, you can just use the basic human stat-line already included in the book (though in the PDF version they've made the mistake of accidentally replacing the standard human stat-line with that of a halfling; I don't think this has ever been fixed) and use the various hero levels (champion, minor, major etc.) for especially heroic characters or leader types.

[Hobgoblin]

Yes, RPGs are definitely worth considering for their detailed and 'granular' approach to combat - and Rolemaster and WFRP definitely have that.

A distinction I'd draw with Mythras (which used to be RuneQuest 6th edition) is that its granularity is tactical in a way that many other RPGs (including RuneQuest, on which Mythras/RQ6 is based) aren't. That is, you can choose the 'special effect' (critical hit) that you want to achieve when the dice and your stats give you the opportunity.

So, in classic RuneQuest, one character might cut another's arm off or stumble or break their sword as a result of good or bad dice rolls. In Mythras, the player of that character can choose what they want to do when the critical/fumble results go their way. This results in either a certain outcome (if the dice have been very favourable) or a chance to achieve one. That means that there's much more active decision-making for the players.

I'd also note that RuneQuest and Mythras (and quite possibly WFRP too; can't remember about Rolesmaster) are in some ways better suited to be skirmish games than RPGs, simply because their combat systems are so deadly. Not great when everyone's just rolled up their characters, but terrific when you want a fast and deadly fight on the tabletop!

One more thing on Mythras. The big pain in the bum with RuneQuest-derived systems has always been statting up characters, including NPCs. But this encounter generator solves that problem: you can generate groups in a couple of clicks. If you look down the 'enemies' and 'parties' list, you can find some historical examples and some that are easily converted (Lunar hoplites become Greek hoplites, for example). Because Glorantha, the default RuneQuest setting, is based on the ancient world, there are lots of Persian/Greek/Roman/Celtic analogues.

[Patrice]

1 to 1 with wounding like right arm wounded minus for throwing javelin, knocked out etc etc (...) about 6-12 figures a side.

Argad rules are more intended for groups 12-20 strong (or slightly more) where all characters die at first wound, except the leader (PC) who have 2 hit points ; however it's possible to play smaller groups and give 2 hit points to each.

There's a blank chart in one of the old extension documents that you can fill up for effects of wound localisation to suit your needs (and could probably be adapted to other skirmish rules) in the 2 last pages of this:
http://www.argad-bzh.fr/argad/pdfs/argad-en-pc-npc-wounds-healing.pdf

Unfortunately, nothing for chariots yet.

[Hobgoblin]

The publishers sell a few combat scenarios; I've played through one, and it worked really well as a straight-up tabletop skirmish with a handful of figures per side.

The scenarios I mentioned are the Mythras Combat Modules. If you were to go down that route, it might be worth spending a couple of quid on one as they're designed to teach certain aspects of the rules. The first one is pretty much a historical fight (i.e. no monsters!). We played through the one with the bear, and it was quite a decent introduction.

You can also get cards with the 'special effects' on them, which might be quite handy.

In both cases, looking at the preview will give you an idea of the sort of detail the game gets into.

[Easy E]

How many models will you be using per side in your skirmish situation?

That might help us give a better idea of scale.