Welsh 7th or 8th century - the whole bare legs, bare feet thing

[has.been]

I think this is one of those things that you can do as you see fit.  If you want Welsh bare foot then go for it but it would be hard to prove they didn’t have shoes if you used figures that are shod.

Or base them in long grass. 

[WorkShy]

I think this is one of those things that you can do as you see fit.  If you want Welsh bare foot then go for it but it would be hard to prove they didn’t have shoes if you used figures that are shod.

Completely true. I think the issue is that the Welsh minis sets are typically metal and I really wanted plastic/resin. Plus, I don't really like the GB Welsh Soapy sculpts and the Footsore Welsh seem quite late period. The only plastic Welsh are GB and they are (in my view) pretty awful when compared to the newer Victrix plastic sets for Late Roman and Dark Age. In those Victrix sets though the minis all have long trousers and shoes.

I think my compromise is probably to mod the Victrix minis to have short trousers but leave the shoes on. Plus some mustaches on the heads. I must admit I find it hard to be convinced that a 7thy century Welsh warband went around with no shoes but Saxons ones did. I do think it's basically a wargaming trope based on flimsy evidence. A bit like early Saxons having small bucklers.

[westwaller]

I'd say Saxons for the 7th or 8th century aren't particularly well covered either.
Do some of the victrix Late Romans have short trousers but their lower legs have puttees?
You could combine bits of the victrix germanic warriors with the late Romans to give a bit of a different look. (mustaches)
Although it might be better to combine Wargames Atlantic Irish or Goths with their late romans? (Which admittedly don't look as good as the victrix ones.
Or just use the the Victrix late Romans and when they come out mix with bits from the forthcoming Victrix early Saxons?
Or...
Combine Gripping beast plastic Saxons bits with their plastic Welsh and possibly some late roman bits too?

[Norm]

Just as a ‘thing’, my father, born 106 years ago, was the youngest of 13, but part of a fairly typical family.

He had an older brother who went to school in girls boots, but nobody said anything ….. because he at least had something on his feet, many didn’t.

It’s just an observation that you don’t have to go far back in time to see that footwear was not the universal right or expectation that it is today 🙂

[jon_1066]

Just as a ‘thing’, my father, born 106 years ago, was the youngest of 13, but part of a fairly typical family.

He had an older brother who went to school in girls boots, but nobody said anything ….. because he at least had something on his feet, many didn’t.

It’s just an observation that you don’t have to go far back in time to see that footwear was not the universal right or expectation that it is today 🙂

For sure.  My Grandad went bare foot in 1920's Scotland - couldn't afford shoes. 

[Komsomol]

The one shoed Welsh bowmen and spearmen that appear on wargames tables across the world are a pain.

This idea comes from a couple of marginal illustrations in the Littere Wallie – a collection of letters and official documents  from 1217 to 1297 collected by the English Exchequer and transcribed by Sir John Goronwy Edwards and published in 1940.
They spawned lots of similar representations of Welsh mediaeval foot soldiers with one shoe on and one shoe off. Google a reason for this and you will get that rationalisation that they got a better grip on rough ground. Few if any of those who trot this out have actually thought about it or tried it.

It may be that they went around shod on only one side. However, magical, mystical, mythical stories abound about heroes with one shoe or one foot placed in special places and poses in Celtic and Norse mythology. Vidarr the son of Odin kills the Fenris Wolf wearing a magical shoe. The image appears in early medieval stone carvings in England – the Gosforth Cross in Cumberland, in the Isle of Man – Kirk Andreas and Sweden – The Ledberg Cross.  Lleu Llaw Gyffes can only be killed with one foot in a cauldron and the other on a goat, and of course gets killed in that position, unlucky huh? Further back still, in the Aeneid, Praeneste’s soldiers appear, one shoe on, one shoe off.

What appears to be going on is more of a representation of a myth of a great warrior or hero rather than an actual hairy Welshmen in battle (or not hairy according to Gerald of Wales). Maybe they did only wear one shoe in battle but I am prepared to guess that if so it was in honour of one of these myths or taboos rather than any inherent practical advantage in having one foot frozen and soaking all the time.

Just to confuse the matter a little, we need to be careful of who was really being represented in these drawings and descriptions in mediaeval documents. Several French descriptions of shoeless vagabond low life in English armies call them Irish: eg Jean de Wavrin describing the siege of Rouen in 1418  – but these were probably Welsh, and appear to be sans shoes at all rather than seul chaussure. Celtic cannon (arrow?) fodder were commonly lumped under the first name that came to mind (the ‘Irish’ frequently massacred by the Parliamentary forces in the ECW in England were probably mostly Welsh and probably the latest example of this).

You also have to consider that it was an English habit to portray those whose cultures they were destroying as deserving of being ‘saved from themselves’ as they were so backward. Bare feet and legs in pictures and text may just be a way of saying ‘we’re better than you.’

[jon_1066]

You only have to think for a few seconds that a single shoe is a crazy idea.  Unless the Welsh had one leg longer than the other.  Most of what troops do is walk, lots of walking.  One shoe would be a nightmare if it had any kind of sole.

[carlos marighela]

You only have to think for a few seconds that a single shoe is a crazy idea.  Unless the Welsh had one leg longer than the other.  Most of what troops do is walk, lots of walking.  One shoe would be a nightmare if it had any kind of sole.

Possibly saving the other one for Sunday Best. 

With any luck that flippant remark will cause the next range of Welsh to have parade dress and campaign dress versions. Anyone challenges the historical fidelity of that , just tell them that a bloke Giraldus met at the pub in Abergavenny said so.

One would have thought that the ever present risk of dripping melted cheese on one's feet would have mitigated against one or no shoes. I suppose the Welsh are inured to such everyday risks.

[Sandinista]

One would have thought that the ever present risk of dripping melted cheese on one's feet would have mitigated against one or no shoes. I suppose the Welsh are inured to such everyday risks.

That would be a rare bit of cheese