Stargrave: House Rules for soldier advancement

[Ordo_Lyrae]

My friends and I are about to start Stargrave and I wanted to add a bit of Necromunda inspired soldier advancement rules to the game. Let me know what you think, constructive comments and feedback are welcome.

Experience for soldiers:

+2 for each mission survived
+2 for each enemy (opposing crew and uncontrolled creatures) reduced to 0 Health
+1 for surviving after being reduced to 0 Health
+2 for opening a loot marker
+1 for taking a loot marker off the table
+1 for passing any other stat check

For every 10 experience the soldier gains a level rolls a d20:

1-10: Stat increase; no stat can be increased by more than 1. If no stat can be increased, choose a skill instead.
11-20: Choose a skill. If the soldier has all of the available skills, increase a stat instead.

Skills:

Recruit: [Grit, Hip Shooting, Lie Low, choose one of the following: +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 7]
Runner: [Expert Climber, Lie Low, Sprint, choose one of the following: +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 7]
Hacker: [Expert Eye, Lie Low, Sprint, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 8]
Chiseler: [Lie Low, Scavenger, Sprint, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 8]
Sentry: [Crushing Blow, Ferocious Charge, Grit, Iron Jaw, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Trooper: [Ballistics Expert, Grit, Hip Shooting, Iron Jaw, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Medic: [Expert Climber, Hard to target, Medic, Sprint, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]

Codebreaker: [Hip Shooting, Hard to target, Expert Eye, Sprint, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Casecracker: [Hip Shooting, Hard to target, Scavenger, Sprint, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Commando: [Hip Shooting, Combat Master, Grit, Iron Jaw, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Pathfinder: [Hip Shooting, Expert Climber, Grit, Hard to target, Sprint, choose one of the following: +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Sniper: [Sharpshooter, Hard to target, Ballistics Expert, Grit, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Grenadier: [Bulging Biceps, Grit, Explosives Expert, Iron Jaw, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Burner: [Bulging Biceps, Grit, Munitions Expert, Iron Jaw, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Gunner: [Bulging Biceps, Grit, Munitions Expert, Iron Jaw, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Armoured Trooper: [Ferocious Charge, Grit, Hip Shooting, Combat Master, Crushing Blow, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 10]

Bruiser: [Ferocious Charge, Grit, Crushing Blow,Iron Jaw, choose one of the following: +1 Fight, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 7]
Engineer: [Grit, Hip Shooting, Hard to Hit, Scavenger, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]

Striker: [Ferocious Charge, Crushing Blow, Combat Master, Sprint, Grit, Iron Jaw, choose one of the following: +1 Fight, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Terrain Expert: [Hip Shooting, Hard To Hit, Sprint, Grit, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Gun Fighter: [Hip Shooting, Hard to Hit, Grit, Ballistics Expert, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]
Trophy Taker: [Sharpshooter, Grit, Crushing Blow, Iron Jaw, choose one of the following: +1 Move, +1 Fight, +1 Shoot, +1 Will, +2 Health][Max Level 9]

Skill List

Hip Shooting: ignores Hasty Shot when using a Pistol, Carbine, or Shotgun.

Sharpshooter: ignores one piece of intervening terrain.

Lie Low: if this soldier is stunned they gain +1 to Fight rolls to defend against Shooting.

Sprint: once per game this soldier may add +2 to Move for one activation.

Ferocious Charge: if this soldier attacks on the same turn it moved into combat, they gain +1 to fight for that attack only.

Bulging Biceps: this soldier ignores Hasty Shot with Flamethrowers, Grenade Launchers, and Rapid Fires.

Crushing Blow: this soldier does +1 damage in combat.

Expert Climber: the soldier can climb without halving their move.

Hard to target: the soldier gets +1 to Fight when defending against a shooting attack.

Grit: reduce the penalty from wounded from -2 to -1.

Combat Master: this soldier ignores the first supporting figure for their opponent (their opponents maximum bonus for supporting figures is +4).

Ballistics Expert: before the game this soldier may make a Will (TN 12) roll and if they succeed, one weapon (Pistol, Carbine, or Shotgun) they have equipped gains +1 damage.

Explosives Expert: Advanced grenades cost 20% less.

Expert Eye: if this soldier was not reduced to 0 health during the game they may add +1 to one data loot roll after the game. Multiple soldiers with this skill cannot affect more than one roll per game.

Medic: if this soldier was not reduced to 0 health during the game they may add +1 to one survival roll of another soldier. Multiple soldiers with this skill cannot affect more than one roll per game.

Munitions Expert: this soldier’s weapon does not jam on a 1.

Scavenger: if this soldier was not reduced to 0 health during the game add d20+10cr to your stash.

[Darkson71]

Not a fan. Makes losing a soldier an even bigger disadvantage to a warband, and affects balance.

[Ordo_Lyrae]

Fair, it does make losing a soldier more painful, although I see that as a feature not a bug. 

1st? edition Necromunda is one of my absolute favorite skirmish games, probably played more of that than any other wargame in my 25+ years of wargaming. Maybe I'm just a bit of a masochist but getting attached to a particular upgraded ganger only to have them die or get a particularly nasty injury was part of the drama and fun of the game. We're also considering using the officer survival table for everyone so soldiers will get permanent injuries too.

I am interested in what you see as the balance issues. I tried to base it on existing abilities in the game as much as possible but I can certainly understand this might skew things a bit. What sort of balance issues do you see arising? I would appreciate your insight to see if there is a way I could address those issues. Would it be more balanced if I removed the stat increases and just had skills as the only upgrades? maybe lower the max level for soldiers?

[Darkson71]

1. I love 1st ed Necro, even when I got screwed big time by the random advancements, injuries etc, but I also like the *Grave games, where you only really care about 1 or 2 models. Necromunda was about a group of individuals.

2. The balance issue would be if someone is regularly losing soldiers compared to another player. Then even if the Captains/XO are roughly the same level, the rest of the warbands might be very different power levels. It (sort of) works in Necromunda because there's an underdog XP bonus (and cash, been a while so can't remember), but even with that in place, we often found that one or two "lucky" gangs started to rule the roost because they were keeping stat upgrades and skills.
Given that the *Grave games already have minimal "balancing" mechanics (because just having 1 or 2 models with differences doesn't really need balancing) and this would show it up even more.

The only "progression" mechanic that I've thought of adding was giving a soldier a personal reroll for every 5/10 games they take part in, to partially encourage players to keep the cheaper soldiers even when they have spare cash to play with.

3. I think the game would be slowed down to much if you had to keep double-checking stat changes/skills on soldiers, especially of the same type - "is that the Commando with the +1 Fight, or the one with Grit?". In a game where you can use any model you like, I think keeping amount of potential confusion down is paramount. For example, I use some old GW Space Marines for Armoured Troopers - if I have to keep explaining to my opponent that "that one is the shooty one, that one is the tough one" I just don't think the complications are worth it.

[Ordo_Lyrae]

I appreciate your response, it's definitely helping me refine my ideas and balance was a major concern. I hope it's helping me move in the right direction with this, it's tricky figuring out where the line is in house rules.

1. I understand trying to make soldiers more "important" is sort of a round hole square peg situation in the *grave games but I want to try and introduce a bit of the Necomunda/Mordheim vibe into it. It's one of things I really miss when I play Frostgrave. This sort progression also feels like it will fit better in Stargrave. In Frostgrave your wizard and apprentice are so much more powerful because of spells, nothing your soldiers can do is anywhere near that. In Stargrave with powers that aren't as powerful as spells and almost every soldier having a gun that increases their threat range, soldiers are proportionally more powerful. I feel (and I may be wrong) this fits better with giving soldiers a bit of personality, they matter more.

2. To the point that it will imbalance things, I have seen that in Necromunda, limiting soldier advancement so that soldiers never get that overpowered seems reasonable. Cap soldiers at level 3 and only give skill access. Hopefully that's not too dissimilar from the optional captain rules in Frostgrave. The skills are mostly situational bonuses and none of them seem to powerful. If anything Hard to target seems like the best one and its an official ability that the Striker and Bruiser start with.

3. I agree this would slow things down, although limiting each soldier to three potential skills should make it far less complicated than my original concept. I don't actually mind this? and I don't think the other players would either. My two other friends I play wargames with currently started with Frostgrave a year ago and they often forget stuff like marking down XP for casting spells, etc. Introducing a little more habitual reference might be beneficial. I am also using tokens for Stargrave, this should help with remembering things as well.

[giles the zog]

Suggest you use the Rangers of Shadow Deep system, RoSD uses pretty much the same basic game mechanics.

[NotifyGrout]

Sorry for a bit of necro, but I had an idea for Frostgrave 1st Edition where soldiers could upgrade from basic Thugs and Thieves to the improved versions, then eventually to the high-end troopers like Rangers, Templars, and so on.

The idea being that if a Thug or Thief survives long enough, he eventually picks up the the experience to fulfill a more specialized role.

Perhaps you could implement something like that and split the difference? You still have story potential for lowly Recruits and Runners to increase in power, but instead of having a lot of balance work, you just have to determine how much EXP it would take to go from, say, Recruit to Trooper or Trooper to Grenadier.