Mongol Tumen

[vtsaogames]

I'm currently reading John Man's "Marco Polo", a combination history/travelogue.
He notes that the Mongolian word tumen and the Chinese word wan both mean 10,000 and are also synonyms for "lots", or "big number".

Since in places the records note 2,000 or 3,000, then it follows that tumen means substantially more than that but not necessarily 10,000. So a Mongol force of 3 tumens may well be less than 30,00, even before any losses.

The book has a blurb saying it is "the history behind the Netflix original series". I guess what little history (names of the characters, etc.) is in the series came from this book. I could do with more history and less travelogue but the author seems to know his history and languages.

[SJWi]

Hi, are you looking for further booking recommendations on the Mongols?

[vtsaogames]

No thanks, have a few on my shelf. But nowhere else have I seen the term tumen being a synonym for "lots of guys". Everything else I ever read said a tumen was 10,000 riders.

On second thought, sure. Maybe you have something I don't or haven't read.

Edit: I do have an DBA Mongol army, hardly used. In DBA the Mongol Conquest army floats like a butterfly. And stings like one. Lots of fun, real hard to win with. Paired with a Teutonic Knights army.

[SJWi]

I'll have a look. I've mulled over a 28mm Mongol army to fight my Teutonics and my mate's Muscovites. Never quite got round to buying it.

[SJWi]

My book "The Mongol Art of War" refers to units of 10 ( Arban/arbat), 100 ( jaghun/jaghut), 1000 ( minqan, minqat) and then 10000 ( tumen/tumet). This information is repeated in Sverdrup's "The Mongol Conquests" albeit he seems to imply a Tuman is just multiple minqat and not necessarily as many as 10,000 men.

Regards 

[EnclavedMicrostate]

Real strengths have always diverged from paper strengths, but the tumen as an administrative unit, not just a military one, was theoretically supposed to have 10,000 households. The idea was that tribes would be broken up and distributed across the tumens, so that their only meaningful loyalty would be to the Great Khan. Having that be a nice round number was presumably thought of as an efficient way of going about it.

[SJWi]

Agreed. One of my books says they expected 60% of the nominal strength to fight. No idea what the source of that assumption is. This talk of Mongols is re-kindling my long-dormant interest in a 28mm army!

[vtsaogames]

Looking at the Mongol Art of War sample on Amazon, very nice. Once I get home and have a stable internet connection, it is going on my Kindle. Right now I'm in a beach cottage in NC. Lovely place with dicey internet. The Marco Polo book is the only one here that isn't a summertime mystery or bodice-ripper.