How much cavalry for Mahdists in the Sudan 84/85

[olicana]

I'm looking at quite limited numbers for these but, did they have more?

In my force force of 4000 foot I have 400 horse - is tat too few?

[FifteensAway]

Good question and a quick Google search was not helpful.  Will be interested if someone has a good idea of the ratio.  And breaking the ratio of mounted into horse and camel mounted if at all possible.  Or at least a truly 'educated' guess - as a opposed to a 'swag' (scientific wild-assed guess).

[olicana]

So much about Mahdist numbers is sketchy.

OOBs for the Mahdists generally only give overall numbers, usually with a 25% margin of error. When cavalry is mentioned, it is usually as a group of them involved in a specific part of an action rather than overall numbers e.g. 'so and so was attacked by 120 horsemen and was forced to fall back'.

Snook says they were usually employed as scouts, inferring that they weren't really employed as a battlefield force: so groups of them, in small numbers, makes sense but, how many small groups is uncertain.

Until I hear otherwise, scaling at roughly 6 figs to 100 men, I'm going for 6600 Kordofan foot, 400 cavalry; 6,600 Beja foot, 200 camelry. A total of 800 foot figures and 36 mounted (excluding commanders). That sounds about right for 'scouting numbers'.

[Cyrus the Great]

Unfortunately, Mahdist forces are listed as "fighting men" in most cases and not broken down as infantry and cavalry. I don't know of any battle in your listed time frame where the Mahdist forces are broken down. I would not exceed 10% and it's probably a lot less in most cases.

[Deedles]

agree with 10% - you can make things fit as you need easily enough around it - if you can't find the detail easily - pretty sure no once else can  -

[FifteensAway]

800 Foot?  Wow, that is a lot. 

I've gone down the route of a certain number of figures and then adding casualty figures so that a placement of a casualty figure allows the full reconstituting of a unit - and with two figures (or stands) of casualties I can reconstitute twice.  Thus, with a little extra effort on casualty figures I readily triple (or treble if you prefer) my available native forces - and at a small fraction of the total to do so (24 figure foot unit, 2-4 casualties (1 or 2 figures to a stand), 15 figure cavalry, 12 figure camelry - 81 figures painted becomes 243 (counting horses and camels) by just adding 6-12 casualty figures or 93 (51 fighting men) total painted figures and mounts for that 243 - or 153 actual fighting men excluding the mounts). 

Hope that all makes sense.

Of course, having 800 figures does give a table a real 'mass' of figures.

Just be aware so many figures - in my experience - can bog a game down as much as it can look great.  There are beautiful Zulu war games I won't go near again because of that.  Maybe base in groups of 10 figures would help - a lot (re: Peter Gilder).  Still, that's 80 bases of figures to move around.

[olicana]

Big games are kind of my thing. I do one project at a time, I'm just finishing 2700 x 28s for the Peninsular War (British done 1140 figs, French done 980 figs, Spanish 720 - 68 figs to go) and then Sudan is the next project on my list. I tend to buy them as one box orders to tie myself in, then paint until they are finished.

A couple of months ago my 28s collections topped the 10,000 barrier for the first time. Punic Wars (2000+), Early Crusades (1400+), Italian Wars (1700+), SYW (2,600+), Napoleonics (2,600+).

Prussian and Russian SYW armies get down and dirty at Zorndorf (About 1600 figs if memory serves) and we've (4 players) fought it to a finish, a couple of times, in under 6 hours.


All are painted (by me) to this standard. As collections go, they ain't too shabby.

[FifteensAway]

Impressive collections - and numbers of figures.  I get it - I have large collections, too.  But for my colonial FFL and Sudan (eventually) I go with the casualty option.  So, I guess, drive on and look forward to seeing your large collection for the Sudan.

Which leads to the question just how many British and allied figures will there be (or are they already done?)?

[olicana]

For the Mahdists, I've gone 800 foot figures and 36 mounted (includes 10 boxes of plastic) plus commands. This equates to a Beja force of roughly 6500 infantry and 200 camel riders, plus a force of 6,500 Kordofan / Nile types with 400 cavalry. Each force will include 96 figures (roughly 1600 men) with rifles. I'm giving them two Krupps and a Gatling (converted crew required for MG) with roughly one model equalling 2-3 pieces. Command figures, though not that many will be on top. This seems to cover most of the bases for 1884-85.

For the Brits, I'm doing six coys of 6 figures each for Royal Irish, Berkshires, Marines, KRRC and the York and Lancaster; I'm doing eight coys each for the Gordons and  Black Watch;  I'm doing eight coys each for the 15th, 17th, 28th Bengal/Bombay NI; three squadrons of six figs each for the 10th Hussars, and four squadrons for the 19th hussars, plus a squadron of nine figs for the 9th Bengal Lancers; two stands of sailors; two Gatlings, a Gardner; three 7pdrs and a Krupp.

That looks like enough to do 2nd El Teb, Tamai and Tofrek.

On top of that I'm also doing the Mounted Infantry Regiment (4 stands, 24 infantry, 12 camels) from Camel Corps, which will be useful for the small numbers of mounted infantry in the above battles. Note, I'm going to allow 12 camels to transport 24 infantry: it's a fudge but, I'm not buying 24 transport camels.

With a couple of hundred pounds worth of reinforcements for the Crusades (something I've been meaning to add for a while) that's an order for a little over £2000.00, which I'll pick up at Fiasco, the Leeds show, in October.

[Jack Jones]

iirc when Graham finally established a Camel Corps in 1885, each camel carried two men.

[ARKOUDAKI]

For cavalry, I am planning on using my 3D printer to pump out a bunch of suitable camels, and the riders being 3D conversions from the medieval Muslim forces from Reconquer Miniatures. However, that part of the work is still a ways off, and subject to change based on what develops in the 3D world.

At present, still looking to finish up my massive infantry force...and it all takes time (especially with loads of other projects on the go!). Such is the way of things. 

[FifteensAway]

Olicana, thanks for the detailed answer to my question - will be impressive when all ready for presentation. 

And - oh do I get the 'too many projects' on the go problem.  Madness it is and madness it will remain but it is happily embraced madness.