Late 17th century naval vessels

[SJWi]

Hi, I've recently developed an interest in late 17th century naval warfare, partly through the "Gloucester" exhibition at Norwich castle supplemented by an art exhibition in Greenwich, and also more general reading on the later Stuarts. I've just bought the League of Augsburg's "Mad For War" rules, albeit don't actually have them yet. I'm now looking for suitable vessels and it seems to be between Tumbling Dice in 1/1200 and either Tumbling Dice in 1/4800 or Navwar in 1/3000. However I can't find decent pictures of the latter two ranges. Can anybody help with pictures and/or advice? I also understand Spithead have recently released a range and have contacted them for details. 

Thanks       

[Codsticker]

Hi, I've recently developed an interest in late 17th century naval warfare, partly through the "Gloucester" exhibition at Norwich castle supplemented by an art exhibition in Greenwich, and also more general reading on the later Stuarts. I've just bought the League of Augsburg's "Mad For War" rules, albeit don't actually have them yet. I'm now looking for suitable vessels and it seems to be between Tumbling Dice in 1/1200 and either Tumbling Dice in 1/4800 or Navwar in 1/3000. However I can't find decent pictures of the latter two ranges. Can anybody help with pictures and/or advice? I also understand Spithead have recently released a range and have contacted them for details. 

Thanks       

The Ark Royal ships from League of Augsburg don't do it for you?

[BeneathALeadMountain]

I have some of the Tumbling dice 1/4800 Napoleonic (sister) range and they’re lovely - tiny and robust, detailed enough and easy to paint. I haven’t purchased any of the Anglo-Dutch but TD is run by a thoroughly excellent and helpful chap and I’m always happy to give them my money 

Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain

[ithoriel]

I too have 1/4800 scale Napoleonics from Tumbling Dice and would echo everything BeneathALeadMountain wrote.

[SJWi]

Thanks for the replies. I've checked out "Ark Royal Moniatures" but discounted them as (a) too expensive but mainly (b) I doubt if my painting/rigging skills can do them justice. Since buying "Mad for War" League of Augsburg have released a ruleset for "epic scale fleet actions" called "Rolling Thunder". I'm wondering if I've bought the right set for what I want to game! Tumbling Dice produce both 1/2400 and 1/4800 and he will be at the SELWG show next Sunday so I can see them "in the metal". I've also  found a company called Spithead Miniatures who make a nice-looking range in 1/2000. I think I may opt for these, but will wait until after SELWG.

[BeneathALeadMountain]

Definitely check TD out in person as the owner is a very helpful chap with a  wealth of knowledge about his ranges/subjects.

I became interested in naval in the last couple of years and settled quickly on the rulesets I like (both ODGW - Post Captain for AWI period and also their WW2 rules) but have found miniatures for both periods to be problematic - scale/delicacy/ suitability for gaming/modelling difficulty/availability all issues I’ve struggled with.

 For age of sail I started with some Warlord 1/700 and enjoyed making these but they’re too big for my everyday usage (I wanted more scope on a sometimes limited tabletop for chases without ‘rolling’ the surface) so I bought some 1/4800 from TD at a show (they were pretty and affordable) to play on a small space and for learning the rules - they are really charming.

I was bought some Langton(?) 1/1200 by my awesome wife which I started (and are beautiful - like truly amazing models) but I struggled so much with my artistic temperament and the delicacy of what I was attempting that I finished a few and just put the rest untouched quietly onto the east face of the lead mountain. I will return but the Small ones are so practical.

Looking forwards to seeing what you do,

Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain

[clibinarium]

Ark Royal are working on smaller, single piece ships to go with the Rolling Thunder rules.

[SJWi]

Thanks for the further posts. Looking at the "Mad for War" rules last night and the sample fleets detailed, they seems  to require circa 6-10 ships a side. For this ruleset I've pretty much settled on either Spithead's 1/2000 range or Tumbling Dice's 1/2400. Navwar also have a very/suspiciously cheap 1/1200 range, priced at almost the same price as more recent Tumbling Dice/Spithead ranges, but having found a review of one they sound like pretty crude casts which need a major modelling project just to get into into an acceptable state. Apologies if I am doing them a dis-service!

I've found an article by Barry Hilton the author of "Mad for War" comparing Spithead's and Tumbling Dice's equivalent ranges. He seems to favour Spithead for detail and ease of assembly but there isn't much in it.

I will be checking out Tumbling Dice this weekend and might put a small order into Spithead.   

[clibinarium]

I became interested in naval in the last couple of years and settled quickly on the rulesets I like (both ODGW - Post Captain for AWI period and also their WW2 rules) but have found miniatures for both periods to be problematic - scale/delicacy/ suitability for gaming/modelling difficulty/availability all issues I’ve struggled with.

 For age of sail I started with some Warlord 1/700 and enjoyed making these but they’re too big for my everyday usage (I wanted more scope on a sometimes limited tabletop for chases without ‘rolling’ the surface) so I bought some 1/4800 from TD at a show (they were pretty and affordable) to play on a small space and for learning the rules - they are really charming.

I was bought some Langton(?) 1/1200 by my awesome wife which I started (and are beautiful - like truly amazing models) but I struggled so much with my artistic temperament and the delicacy of what I was attempting that I finished a few and just put the rest untouched quietly onto the east face of the lead mountain. I will return but the Small ones are so practical.

Thanks for the replies. I've checked out "Ark Royal Moniatures" .... I doubt if my painting/rigging skills can do them justice. Since buying "Mad for War" League of Augsburg have released a ruleset for "epic scale fleet actions" called "Rolling Thunder". I'm wondering if I've bought the right set for what I want to game! ..

This raises some interesting points. With bigger ships the modeling of rigging/ratlines would be too much of a headache for me (you can of course just leave them off). With smaller single-piece ships the ratlines and shrouds have to be sculpted in and form a sort of solid block behind the mast which has to be painted in.
What I wonder is would people be interested in that approach with bigger ships, say would you use a 1200 with solid ratlines/shrouds? They wouldn't be the nice "ship in a bottle" type models that 1200s often are, but they'd be perhaps more robust and easier to put together. For gaming purposes would this work do you think? I'm just spitballing here, I don't know whether single piece 1200s would even be castable.

[BeneathALeadMountain]

My 1200 had separate ratlines and rigging and it was this that drove me to distraction (not the quality of the models - Langton make art) it was all me  . Mainly, probably, the learning process of attempting my first sailing ship and then rigging and re-rigging the thing maybe 6 or 7 times (different materials then thickness) before realising that stretched sprue was the best option as it’s cheap, relatively tough and when sized correctly very resilient. I’d imagine with 3D printing you could easily solve the problem (it would be as fragile as anything printed) as the ratlines could be one (or minimal) piece(s) etc.

Andrew
BeneathALeadMountain