15/18mm: knights of similar stature to Copplestone? (lurching from HYW to C13th)

[Hobgoblin]

I got hold of Dan Mersey's Arrowstorm recently and am very keen to give it a go. It's been a bit of a spur for getting some 15mm stuff based up and painted, and while our initial games will use fantasy figure, I'm quite keen on getting some historical sides painted up. The human figures I have in 15mm (or 18mm) are chiefly Copplestone barbarians and Xyston ancients. But I'm thinking of painting up a good few bases of 15/18mm knights and eventually building out a couple of small historical forces on 40mm squares that would work for DBA, Impetus (when doubled up) and the like, as well as for Arrowstorm. And I also want to paint some small-scale heraldry!

So, of the various HYW ranges out there, which, if any, would be a reasonable match in scale for large 15s like Copplestone and Xyston? I always find "15mm" the hardest figure size to predict, and I sometimes think that fully armoured figures tend to be a little smaller than they should be within a given range.

Thanks in advance for any pointers!

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

That's an interesting question.  I almost went with 15mm (later decided 28mm) for HYW and would have used Khurasan miniatures.  Here is an older discussion on Khurasan compatability.  See the comment by A Lot of Gaul.

https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=104569.0

[Byrthnoth]

Corvus Belli had a HYW range that is now produced in siocast by Plastic Soldier Company - their ancients are very close to Xyston, so I assume the medieval will match as well.

[Hobgoblin]

Thanks, both!

Ethelred: the Khurasan range does look wonderful. Alas, it can't be had easily in the UK, and I'm a little wary of doing a big, expensive order that takes an enthusiasm-waning while to get here (as opposed to a few packs that could be painted up over a weekend!). But yes, they do look just the job.

Byrnoth - aha: I'd been eyeing the PSC/Corvus Belli stuff. And they do smaller packs now, which would allow a relatively inexpensive taster. I'd like to be doubly sure on the scale, though - has anyone seen the siocast medievals in the 'flesh'? (I went down an internet rabbit hole on this and found a fierce discussion over whether Corvus Belli and Xyston ancients were or were not the same size!).

Curiously, I just saw a YouTube video that made Corvus Belli and Essex HYW look rather compatible. I'd assumed that Essex 15mm would be quite small as their 15mm fantasy figures are generally very small - even when they're counterparts to 28mm figures that are very big at that scale. But the Essex knights looked, if anything, slightly bigger than the Corvus Belli ones:



One of the things I'm keenest to avoid is 'Shetland ponies', which can sometimes be a problem with 15mm cavalry. The Essex horses looked quite hefty, though.

Thanks again for your help - and any further illumination welcome: 15mm is the scale that needs the most care when ordering, I find!

[Gibby]

I imagine Blue Moon's 15mm HYW range would be on the 18mm side of "15mm". I'm led to believe that they scale fairly well with Demonworld (I've seen Warhammer armies in 15mm made up of Demonworld and Blue Moon's Italian Wars range). I think Blue Moon's stuff is all the same sculptor, and may be the same sculptor who does the Battle Valor range?

https://www.oldgloryuk.com/hundred-years-war/50/249

Worth a go, perhaps. Maybe one of the cheaper command packs as a test purchase!

[Hobgoblin]

Ah - that's very interesting - thanks! I'd completely missed Blue Moon's HYW, Crusader and Italian Wars ranges (the initially chronological arrangement on the website had thrown me!).

My first thought on looking at them is the horses look very similar in stature and style to the Copplestone ones (a very good thing). The second is that a pack of cavalry isn't much more than a command group and would give me five bases of knights to work with (which would keep me busy for some time, I suspect). And the third is that the knights look nicely imposing - even if they're smaller than the Copplestone barbarians, they don't look like they'll seem to be armoured children.

 So now the decision is which lot of knights to go for! The great-helmed crusaders actually look quite tempting, but I suspect one of the Crecy/Poitier sets with caparisoned horses will win out!

Thanks again!

[rumacara]

Old Glory UK (Blue Moon) HYW figures are great and i´m slowly (very) painting 2 armies.
They are about the same size as Xyston, Khurazan.
About the old Corvus Belly figures, they are slightly smaller in size to Blue Moon but the odd miniature can be mixed in units. For the purists in size i would advise use them in separated miniatures.

[Pattus Magnus]

Beautiful work on those!

[Hobgoblin]

Yes, those look fantastic!

As both Corvus Belli and Blue Moon have a fairly hefty minimum purchase (unlike, say, Ral Partha Europe or Alternative Armies, where you can buy individual figures), I think I'll go with Blue Moon.

I reckon I'll start off with a pack of Crecy-era English longbowmen and French knights, on the basis that this will give me plenty of human cavalry and archers for fantasy games, and also the start of a pair of DBA armies for the HYW. I can then expand with a second purchase once I get those done.

The current plan is to base everything on 40mm squares (which works for Mayhem, Fantastic Battles and - doubled up - for Impetus, and is OK for HOTT and DBA, given their tolerance for deeper bases). There might be a case for basing archers on DBA 40 x 20s and then doubling those up for 40 x 40 games - simply because a DBA HYW English army needs a lot of archer elements.

On the other hand, I might just keep everything on 40s and (eventually) double up to 80mm frontages for DBA for a more impressive game on a bigger table. I love HOTT and DBA, but I find the 40 x 20 15mm elements a bit flimsy-looking and fiddly compared with bigger figures on 60mm frontages. And 40 x 40 gives a better impression of a 'unit' (even if it's only five to eight men), so will look better when the bases are deployed individually for Arrowstorm.

 

[rumacara]

Thank you both.
I havent sorted out what figures i will use for both armies but i may have some left overs.
When sorted i will pm you if you want any.

[Hobgoblin]

I havent sorted out what figures i will use for both armies but i may have some left overs.
When sorted i will pm you if you want any.

I'd definitely be interested - cheers!

In the meantime, I've had a change of plan (in the short term at least - I still plan to stock up on Blue Moon HYW in a month or two). But I was browsing Keep Wargaming yesterday and managed to pick up some out-of-production fantasy stuff (15mm Blood Dawn goblin cannons, for example). I had a look at the Museum Miniatures section and noticed some decent-looking Islamic Persians (lots of super-heavy cavalry) at extremely low prices. I was about to get a whole load of that when I looked into the Dark Age and Crusades section and found a whole host of knights (generic, Templar, Teutonic) for the same low prices. So I stocked up on both foot and mounted figures.

As my main aim is to get generic 'knights' on the table, these will do the job for now. Most of the figures look to be late 12th century or early 13th (barrel helms and surcoats), so lots of scope for painting inspired by the Maciejowski Bible and the like - or even Baron's War-style heraldry. I might even paint some up as military orders, as those port over nicely to fantasy settings.

I gather the Museum ranges tend to be quite big, and the horses look sizeable. As I'm using 40mm squares rather than 40 x 30 for cavalry, slightly over-sized figures shouldn't be a problem (and if the knights are significantly bigger than the Copplestone barbarians, that can be put down to breeding and padding!). I've had a lot of fun painting up knights from this period in 1/72 and 28mm (below), so I hope these will be similarly entertaining.





I'd already ordered a book on HYW heraldry, though, and I quite fancy a go at fiddlier heraldry and plate armour. So I'll keep Blue Moon in line as the next project, with the aim of some Conanishly anachronistic mass battles in the months ahead. The goal of all this is to get some truly massive 15mm battles going on a 6 x 4' table before too long.

[Hobgoblin]

The Museum knights arrived today: they're great - much better than they look on the Museum website and very nicely scaled with the Copplestone barbarians. True, the barbarians are a bit taller, but they look around 6' to the knights' 5'8" or 9", which is fine. Given the stances, the knights I compared with the barbarians are looking them in the eye.

The key thing is that the great helms on the knights look appropriately large; one thing I've found with some 15mm figures is that their helmets just look too small to be worn by the likes of the Copplestone humans. After all, great helms are huge in real life.

The horses look a good size too.