Seven Days to the River Rhine Run-Out

[SJWi]

Carlos, I guess it is "scaleable". In the rules they talk about bigger games but on my 6 x 4' table I can only accommodate 4-6 tanks a side and maybe 1-2 infantry  platoons . Anything bigger means no manoeuvre room which you really need for a good game. Hence why I opted for 6mm for NORTHAG. PSC's models for NORTHAG are 10mm, I suspect primarily driven by "commercial considerations" ( ie H&R and GHQ have pretty much sewn up 6mm). That said PSC's have not really developed their range, and their offerings  are pretty limited with Red 3 Miniatures, Pendraken and Timecast having much bigger.....and IMHO nicer.... ranges.   

[Daeothar]

I am a bit on the fence now between 6mm and 10mm; I totally forgot I have enough 10mm terrain for a 6x4 urban table. I use this for Dropzone Commander, but since it's simply a concrete jungle, I don't see why I couldn't also use it for WW3...

Simply add some modern(ish) details such as gas stations or terrace style housing and I'd be done on that front. (still have to finish it, of course  ).

And 10mm is objectively prettier... 

[SJWi]

Daeothar, my main advice would be to ask yourself "how big" you want to go with this project. At about £4 per vehicle ( unless producing your own 3d printed models) a couple of platoons doesn't break the bank, but bigger formations ( particularly Warsaw Pact under some rules) will get pretty pricey . If I was starting over I would go 10mm for SDttRR as it involves a low model count. Although the vehicles are nearly as pricey as you can find some Battlefront 15mm plastics, I think the scale just looks better.

If you want to add some real 1980s period West German buildings to your existing building stock I would look no further than Timecast's range. They produce houses, shops and even a supermarket. I have some of their 6mm stuff and it is superb. 

[AKULA]

Lovely looking models 

[CapnJim]

The last game of 7DTTR we played involved a Soviet attack with a T80 company (9 tanks) and attached BMP platoon (3 BMP2s with dismounts), with a recon section of 2 BRDMs.  They attacked understrength Americans (3 M1A1s and 3 M2 Bradleys with dismounts) defending a river bridge near a West German village.   It made for a pretty darn good game, as I recall.  I think I have photos somewhere...

[nickdives]

Being an ex BAOR chap finding a set of rules to replicate what may have happened has been a bit of a quest! We have played Seven Days a few times now, and enjoyed it, to the extent a few of us intend to put on a "large" game later in the year, somewhere in the SW of England. Meanwhile we are putting on Gyros Teller, Pt VI the Belgian defence, at Exeter on 11 May 24.

To mirror what folks have said, by the time troops were in contact, most guns will have switched to depth targets, although depending on the task the Bde might allocate some guns to a Battlegroup. Likewise Recce, one would not expect to see Recce on the front line as part of the battle, they would either be forwards of the fight or to the rear, awaiting re-tasking.

Of course a Soviet Advance Guard would contain arty and the 2S1, and the Abbot!, could fire in the direct role.

[carlos marighela]

All rather depends on the scenario/ tactical situation. In the defence guns will clearly still be firing FPF missions in contact. Warpac forces generally attacked mounted, so again guns could still be firing after the assaulting force has left its FUPs. To not factor in artillery is odd IMO.

Recce may well be involved as screening forces withdraw and while the dedicated recce troops of Soviet armies typically were either well ahead or on flanks with orders not to engage, it was a standard Soviet doctrine to have a recce group of a tank and an infantry platoon act as the recce element to MRR attacks from the line of march.

[nickdives]

At the level at which seven Days is set, one would be very lucky to receive a Troop of Abbot allocated from Bde.

A recce screen is that, it is not there to fight but to monitor and report and not lead attacks Team Yankee style. Sov recce was very different and at Regimental level could well have a platoon of tanks supporting elements of the Recce company willing to fight for information.

Attached a good old aid memoire from the 80s and a elements of a MMR Recce Coy.

[carlos marighela]

Quite familiar with the tactical doctrines. Nobody's arguing that a platoon would have a dedicated battery but if that platoon or company is part of a larger defensive position, it's likely to have some sort of off-board support and potentially that should be factored into a game. How that is done has multiple solutions but completely removing it seems odd. Of course I don't know the game system so maybe the design factors it in another, more abstract, manner.

Never played Team Wanky so that wouldn't be my model. I do game Vietnam, where supporting arms density would typically be at similar and sometimes lower levels than 1980s Europe and dispensing with off board artillery for ay game set at a company level would seem distinctly odd.

As for recce, I served for a period as an attachment to a recce regiment and again, I'm familar with their doctrinal peculiarities. All I'm saying is that it is possible to conceive of recce elements withdrawing through a defensive position, main or otherwise, whilst being pursued and thus caught up in the fight. Whilst not their main bag, recce elements do from time to time get employed in mundane tasks such as route security.

[carlos marighela]

[Daeothar]

...All I'm saying is that it is possible to conceive of recce elements withdrawing through a defensive position, main or otherwise, whilst being pursued and thus caught up in the fight. Whilst not their main bag, recce elements do from time to time get employed in mundane tasks such as route security.

I can confirm that, having been a group leader and later platoon sergeant in one of the last mounted infantry recon units in the Dutch army. That's mounted, not armoured... The motto was see without being seen, because when the shooting starts, we're all dead. Most exercises were spent walking (and crawling), watching and radioing, without a shot being fired (by us).

Obviously, we were a blatant anachronism in a time of mobile warfare, so in wartime we'd be employed as a forward observing unit often several kilometers out, falling back towards the lines at the first sight of the red team (obviously working from the assumption of a defensive stance).

In hindsight, expecting us to fall back towards our own lines on foot, or at best in Landrovers and 4-ton trucks was hugely optimistic (I'd rather have tried my luck hoofing it, especially when facing armour). Also considering we were issued only small arms and a couple of LAWs

Peacetime though, we were employed as opfor a lot, especially for the Americans in Germany, Dutch Territorial reserves and UN-peacekeepers in training, and as domestic security units (that was the boring stuff).

Cavalry recon units operated much the same way; pretty much as Carlos explained. They were just harder and faster than us, so stood a better chance of actually reaching our own lines 

[nickdives]

"Whilst not their main bag, recce elements do from time to time get employed in mundane tasks such as route security"

Indeed, quite scenario specific, and most of our Gyros Teller series of games start with the Recce elements screaming down the road turrets reversed, attached showing the Belgian Recce passing through the German line of defence. Route security, convoy escort we even had a QDG Troop attached to our Bde HQ as Bde Recce and HQ security!

[Deedles]

A friend and I are playing The First Domino campaign at the moment . The addition of Campaign points (CP)  that allows , extra air support/defence , artillery support etc is a decent tweak - I can be used also to buy more forces .

The rules exist for on board mortars - hitting on an 8 plus on d10.and get one better having hit - just you then tend to run out of command chits to keep activating it.

Higher level art is by card availability -and it’s a random distribution normally if you get one at all .  . That where the CP can at least give you a definite option of having some support . We use this at any point of the game rather than before it all kicks off . However it can only inflict one morale marker - you need 6 to kill infantry - so it’s something we want to improve the mechanic of too .

Infantry are harder to kill than vehicles- so first thing to do is dismount them! As they can be easily killed in vehicle if it kabooms , or at best it survives and takes maximum morale markers - so just one hit would kill them .

The campaign is available from the 7DTTR FB page .

[nickdives]

Great video, somewhere I have a photo of me about to have a pee up against the T-62!

[carlos marighela]

Always been curious about that. Do you know when and where they acquired the Soviet kit? I presume it was gifted by Israel. Appears that they did have a full CRP element to play with along with at least one BMP.