The Doggerland Front; where are the Dutch?

[zeppelfahrt]

Yes!  It all makes perfect sense to me now. 

Indeed, lots of "etc., etc "possibilities here when applying Ried's geography - brilliant idea. well thought out.

Thanks for putting me on the same page

[area23]

In any case I have decided to use the Copplestone Turks I had lying around for ages for converting into freikorps to make a mighty Dutch verkenningseenheid instead.
Adding putty breast pockets and press moulding the Adrian helmets should work.

[zeppelfahrt]

In any case I have decided to use the Copplestone Turks I had lying around for ages for converting into freikorps to make a mighty Dutch verkenningseenheid instead.

Are these reconnaissance troops? 

[area23]

Yes, small group from a bigger platoon for now.

I suppose the Dutch would be going for pragmatic solutions, recon squads, border guards, defensive waterworks and failing diplomacy. 

By the way, yesterday I read somewhere that the Dutch army indeed was stocking French M.15 Adrian helmets already during the Great War mobilisation.

[zeppelfahrt]

Yes, small group from a bigger platoon for now.

I suppose the Dutch would be going for pragmatic solutions, recon squads, border guards, defensive waterworks and failing diplomacy. 

By the way, yesterday I read somewhere that the Dutch army indeed was stocking French M.15 Adrian helmets already during the Great War mobilisation.

Splendid. I am looking forward to seeing how they look when finished.  Glad to hear that the Adrian Helmets worked out.

I agree with the pragmatic approach in regards to reconnaissance imperatives with new natural boundaries. 

Consequently, I have been working on a small unit of Eisentragenhexeputzerntroopen that will play a role in the greater German effort to explore and secure the new land mass between the Weser and the Eems. 

I have been using figures from Knucklebone's Last War series for most of them.

[Daeothar]

Can't wait to see what you guys come up with!

I'm still thinking of either going with May40 miniatures with a headswap to Adrian helmets, or something a bit more hands-on with either plastic or 3D-printed parts instead.

I'm not a button counter; I'm only concerned with the general appearance. So I'm not too fussy about webbing or pockets not being correct for the era and nation. The most important things I look out for are puttees and late 19th century rifles.

Also, it might be appropriate to do some troopers, or maybe even a full squad wearing gasmasks. They might be useful when trying to identify individual squads. Another nice idea might be engineering squads, working with civilians to dig the new IJssel canal to the North-West. They might be armed with pickaxes and entrenching tools, creating a more CC-oriented unit. maybe proficient with explosives as well?

I have a handful of plastic GW banshees which would be perfect as Witte Wieven, and a trio of scarecrow men, which are perfect as the (very) local Juten Jan lurking monster.


As for the Dutch army's disposition. Like I mentioned, I can see the Dutch army being quite overstretched, having to patrol suddenly triple or quadruple the amount of border they used to. Also, due to the adherence to their neutrality, a purely defensive stance would be maintained.

The way I see it; the Southern borders are reasonably well protected with electrical fences, put up by the Germans to stop Belgian refugees from fleeing North. The Eastern borders were already strengthened, but would require slightly less manpower, now that Germany would have to spread its own forces thinner as well.

As mentioned in the book; the established frontlines in Belgium and France were basically frozen, as all beligerents siphoned forces away to operate in the Doggerland. So in the South, things are pretty much stalemated as there is simply not enough manpower to conduct anything larger than small unit raids across the no-man's land. Remember that the battlefields of Belgium and France were quite compact, when compared to the vast new plains of the Doggerland.

Which is why, in the Doggerland, mobile warfare would be more common, mostly due to the enormous stretches of land that needed to be covered. Add to that the (initial) complete lack of logistical networks, and it would be extremely daunting to maneuver anything larger than a battallion for any extended time.

Which is why I think (light) cavalry would see a resurgence. The lands have turned magically verdant almost overnight, so there is plenty to eat for the horses. Operating tanks and cars this far from established lines and supplies appears to me to be a very challenging endeavour, especially at that tech-level.

So, the Dutch would probably establish border markings pretty quickly. At the time, stone border markers were still a very common thing, and I can see survey teams, accompanied by detachments of army engineers planting them along the new borders every kilometer or so, as was customary. A single roll of barbed wire across the ground might be wished for, but I reckon they would only be used at strategic locations, simply due to the ridiculous amounts required.

At points, let's say every 10 kilometers, a small outpost would be established. Think a single bunker with a lookout post, occupied by a (partial) squad. Every 50 kilometers, a larger stronghold would be built, with a platoon commander and larger contingent. Possibly with stables too. It's likely that these locations would have a radio as well. From here, mounted patrols would ride along the borders, checking in with the smaller posts, and maybe relieving or resupplying them as scheduled. Closer to the outposts, patrols on foot would also be conducted.

There's a distinct Roman Limes feel to this setup, and the Dutch might well have been influenced by the concept.

There would be virtually no depth to the lines; they would be there only for observation and to mark Dutch sovereignty. More deeply inland, there would be larger locations (fortresses?) from where interdiction forces could be launched in case of an illegal border crossing.

Think squadrons of mounted infantry or even proper cavalry. Units that could move relatively fast across the wild lands. I could maybe even see the use of captured vehicles, but as I said previously; those would be very limited, both in numbers and operational use. Spare parts would be very hard to come by, and the terrain would be challenging at best for anything wheeled. Tracked vehicles would simply be too slow to be used for interdictions. They might still be used in defense or assaults though.

And because of the connection to the land, and therefore larger presence of magically attuned individuals in the Dutch population, I've been toying with the idea of allowing a second magic user for the Dutch, or to maybe give them access to more schools/disciplines.

To counterbalance that, vehicles would be way more expensive.

I've read several battlereports, and tanks (and especially) armoured cars are really powerful in the game, so the above might require some tweaking to make sure the Dutch are still a balanced force to play, but some small changes might make them a very unique force to field...

[YPU]

I havnt been looking at the game a lot, but was wondering about the dutch perspective for a bit. Very cool to see your take on it!

If you want a mobile force, don't forget that we had about as many dogs for pulling carts as infantry in that era.


(Belgian counterpart shown here)


Adrian helmets do seem to make sense, and heck they look so spiffy! let me know if you find some you'd like printed mate.

EDIT: You should drop may40 a line, not sure what is going on with his stuff currently but cant hurt to ask.

[area23]

I'm not a button counter; I'm only concerned with the general appearance. So I'm not too fussy about webbing or pockets not being correct for the era and nation. The most important things I look out for are puttees and late 19th century rifles.

I'm thinking the same way. My biggest worry is to find the right mix for Dutch uniform green.

Cavalry, yes. great idea. The Back of Beyond in the North Sea. I don't have the book, but I suppose roads and railroad tracks aren't present yet? Armoured cars were a new invention and prone to breakdown and malfunction.

[Daeothar]

...If you want a mobile force, don't forget that we had about as many dogs for pulling carts as infantry in that era.

Dogs! Yes; brilliant idea! 

I could see those being used in quite a large number indeed. Both as draft animals and as guard/track/attack dogs. They would be perfect for garrison duty along the many hundreds of kilomters of wilderness border. I'm gonna run with that for sure...

As for printing helmets; thanks for the offer mate, but I can do the printing myself. It's the designing that's eluding me still (Well, almost; I did use Tinkercad to redesign that particular deodorant stick recently, but that's hardly a challenge ).

I'm thinking the same way. My biggest worry is to find the right mix for Dutch uniform green.

Cavalry, yes. great idea. The Back of Beyond in the North Sea. I don't have the book, but I suppose roads and railroad tracks aren't present yet? Armoured cars were a new invention and prone to breakdown and malfunction.

I do have the (near) perfect recipy, as I've also done some WW2 Dutch. It's in my painting journal; I can't recall it from the top of my head since it's been a few years, but I'll look it up and post it here. Bear in mind that the colour was quite varied before the early twenties, as there was no agreed upon standard. And different suppliers all had slightly different colours.

Which does make painting them more interesting I reckon!

As far as I can tell from the very limited background in the book, there is virtually no infrastructure in the Doggerland. So no roads or railroads for sure, but I can imagine that the Dutch would change this pretty quickly. If only because border patrols would be taking the same route every round, so pretty soon, small footpaths and horse tracks would be created all along the borders.

Also, I can imagine dirt roads being worn into the landscape eventually when supplying outposts/fortresses. Especially when using trucks, horses and carts and the like. And then there's the digging effort in the North, which would require steam engines, and other large equipment. Probably these would be brought in by boat from the old mainland, but once on site, they would have to be operated in the dirt.

And they would make for some very compelling raiding targets too, I reckon!

[zeppelfahrt]

And then there's the digging effort in the North, which would require steam engines, and other large equipment. Probably these would be brought in by boat from the old mainland, but once on site, they would have to be operated in the dirt.

This might be useful for the New Ijssel canal project.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1801517

[Daeothar]

Ooh, that's pretty!! 

[zeppelfahrt]

Thanks TSG; I've used basically the same Exclusive Economic Zone map. This division has been in existence since halfway the nineteenth century, but has only been ratified in the early nineties! Before that, it was more or less a gentlemen's agreement, but the division was largely the same.

@ area23: obviously the marines (were they called Black Devils then already?) would play a major role. But since the entire Doggerland has risen and has quickly become abundantly verdant, their role would be largely the same as standard infantry units I reckon. But they should definitely be there, yes!

Here's a first draft of my head-canon for the whole setting, shoehorning the Netherlands into it

So, the Dutch: below average troops (exception being the marines, obviously), very little to no armour, machine guns or field artillery (perhaps something captured, but very rare) and a larger than average reliance on magic and cavalry...

I have printed your "head-cannon" and keep it in my copy of AWT. 

I now cannot imagine any action on the Doggerland front without some Dutch Involvement.   

How are the figures coming along?

[zeppelfahrt]

https://www.eurominority.eu/index.php/en/frisia/

[Return of the Modhail]

Hi, I’m late to the party, as I only recently found my way back to the LAF.

Some things I’d like to offer up for consideration regarding the Dutch in Doggerland:
1.The Dutch are, as a nation, quite fishery intensive, much of it in/around estuaries or our (now inland) sea of Ijssel.  When the sea started retreating, you can be sure those coastal fishing communities moved along with the shoreline. Leaving the Dutch facing side of the Rhine/Meusse/Scheld superriver, the Ijssel and Extended Eems dotted with small hamlets and outposts of fisheries, all regularly “patrolled” by boats moving to supply these settlements and bring their produce to market.  I can imagine the Dutch government, wanting to secure these fertile lands, would quickly have these settlements backed by either a citizen militia, strong police force or small garrisons. All connected over water.
2.In the 1900s/1910s there was a political push to expand the Dutch Navy, I can imagine the falling waters and sudden extended rivers may have diverted this into a heavy investment in river-capable patrol boats. And minelayers, as the Dutch Navy had quite an interest in those at the time.
3. The Ijssel sea is vital for Dutch industrial fishery, so there is a great likelihood that when the waters started receding, it was quickly dammed, to preserve these vital fishing water, meaning the Ijssel river may be significantly smaller, or even absent. Giving the Dutch more reason to push to the Eems, to get a secure “wet” border.
The above three points could make crossing these rivers into Doggerland proper a political, as well as literal, minefield
Lastly, the Dutch are stubborn assholes, not content to wait for land to fully stop being water, as well as dedicated opportunists. So there is a good chance the Dutch would mobilize and build a series of settlements on mounds and polders, or even just in the marshland itself as far out as the receding waters will allow, just to be the first there and claim what land they could.
In my mind, either the Dutch got a bloody nose in the early stages of the Doggerland Rush or they would be a major (though overstretched) player that’s a thorn in both German and English sides. But, their power would be concentrated near the water’s edge. Once you get past that, into the hinterlands, you’ll barely encounter anything, save the occasional farm, small settlement or expedition. Oh and the “colonies for the poor” that we would plonk down anywhere that seems remote and depressing enough…
That, or we’d be very aware we’re a paper tiger, and while persistently making political claims to the land within those rivers, quietly allow/overlook the German and English entering the area (mostly because we’re powerless to actually stop them), hiding behind our neutral status.  Knowing us Dutch, we’d either tax them for entry/exit and any items/knowledge collected while there, or we’d find some other way to profit off these incursions.

Added thought: While were looking at the riverside areas as borders to be protected/held, many Dutch, including elements of the government, will see it as extended areas of contact with easy water transport for trade, smuggling and other shenanigans…  I could see a wild trade in “expedition permits”  into the Doggerlands being sold, of varying degrees of officialness and legality. Recently built Dutch fishing villages and specialist trade posts supplying and offering services to British and German expeditions, and shaking them down when they try to leave.

[Daeothar]

Some good additions there; I can certainly see some stubborn and determined Frisians throwing up mounds (terpen) and colonising the new regions!

And don't forget that at the time, Surinam, the Antilles and Indonesia were still solid parts of the Kingdom. So locally, the Dutch might be a minor player, but globally, they would be a major one. And in terms of economic power, they would rival or surpass Germany and give the Uk a good run for its money too.

So with that in mind, the Netherlands would, in my opinion, not be easily pushed over, at least politically. Also, don't forget that the Allies and the Germans still had the bulk of their forces in the trenches on the Western front, so major incursions or land grabs would just not be possible for either. So in that regard, the Dutch could very probably be on par with the two beligerents as far as projection of power is concerned.

Meaning that they could not possibly defend all of the new land, just like the others would not be able to take and hold it either. So raids and patrols would be the norm. And Dutch settlers thrown into the mix is absolutely a great idea! The potential for inclusion of civilian militia is too good to pass up

How are the figures coming along?

Well, I've been thinking about them a lot. Does that count? 

I do have this avenue of approach that would be interesting; Wargames Atlantic STLs kitbashed together. I forget the exact sets, but they would be a very good approximation of how Dutch troops would have looked in those days, with a minimum of conversion work involved.

Also; for the magical support, I have been thinking of old women in traditional fisher's wives clothing. That would be an interesting junxtaposition for sure.

So. Many. Projects...